Status update & new forum structure

[OzzyKP]

Restructuring.

Another very minor suggestion. These two forums are quite dead and could be killed/archived:
Alternative Civs
Clash of Civilizations

It is also odd to have categories where there is just one forum. So I suggest this as well:

Move Civ3 General into the Civ2 category and rename the category "Civilization II & III"

Combine CTP and CTP 2 into one category.

Make a new category for "Other Games" or "More Civ-Like Games We Cover" and put these in there:
RoN General
MoO Series General
GalCiv Series General
Spore

[Lancer]

On a more positive note I see the restraining of extremely negative moderation as a very positive new aspect in the OT and I'm very personally grateful for it. As unfortunate as it is that the site retains and promotes someone who has such an attitude and history over the very same people that negativism has been vented on in the past it's nice that the muzzle has been applied.

[Locutus]

Okay, now we've cleared up our internal confusion about which version of our draft to implement, further changes have been made, as we already proposed in the original thread 2 months ago:

- The CtP categories have been merged (both CtP1 forums also merged into one, MP discussions now go in CtP1 General).

- An Other Games category has been created where most of 'smaller' game forums (RoN, MoO, Spore) have been placed, as well as the existing Other Games forum.

- The Nation States and Paradox forums have been archived (active threads moved to Other Games -- if I missed any or you want other threads moved let me know).

Barring mistakes made by me (it's 4:30 AM over here, I'm sure I screwed something up) and further feedback from you guys this *should* be the final structure. If you have any comments on the forum structure (including forum names and links to subforums, etc), please let us know. Details like civgroups, topped threads, display settings, the now-extremely-messy archives, etc will be addressed over the coming days as it's way past my bedtime already.

[Harry Tuttle]

Ugh, you just had to merge on tax day. I'm half drunk. Who're the mods in the Scenario League?

[OzzyKP]

Damn, now that's what I call service.

[Locutus]

Originally posted by Lancer
Very nice. Hope it attracts more people and gets back some of the ones who left.

I don't know that it'll do that but hopefully it'll at least keep people from leaving while we work on further and far larger improvements

Must take issue with leaving the history forum. As noted in the OP it is even slower than it was. Must we wait until it dies completely? If it were to be moved back soon then some of the people who post there might actually still be around and help the OT activity which is suffering since the break up. If the OT dies then there's nothing left of this once busy site, and the OT isn't doing so well.

Solver phrased that a bit unfortunately. The History and Tech forum actually had a pretty strong start to the year, which partially encouraged us to keep them around for now (among other things). Only in the last 6 weeks has traffic significantly dropped, but such temporary swings in activity are not uncommon, we want to see how this trend develops before we axe the forums.

As far as how merging them back into the OT would affect the latter, the effect would be negligible. The History traffic constitutes only about 1% of the main OT traffic, the Tech forum on the whole has even lower numbers. It's no more than a drop in the bucket, reuniting the forums won't magically boost traffic in the OT by any significant amount (the numbers of Tech discussions at least wasn't any higher before we separated the two forums, we have stats to confirm that too).

But this is an argument we've had over and over though, we all know the arguments on both sides. We understand why there's a decent group of people that want to see the forums reunited, and we actually agree with a lot of their arguments. But there's also a group that wants to keep the forums separate, and we agree with some of their points too. Both groups have enough clout to be taken seriously and we're pretty much evenly split among the administration as well (with I think I can say none of us being terribly convinced that either solution is the obvious right one). For now we're keeping the forums as they are, but we will keep an eye on how they develop over the coming months: we're not by any means convinced yet that these forums will stay around in the long run, they just earned themselves some respite.

Either way, these forums are added flavour at best, the overall health of the OT doesn't ride on them, there are FAR bigger factors that are affecting that (by far the largest being that we haven't had a major game release in going on 3 years, which has always had the biggest impact on overall site activity, both on-topic and off).

[Wiglaf]

More arrainging of deck chairs on the Titanic.

Bingo lancer

Splitting a dying forum into 3 just isn't smart to begin with, but keeping them after they're all practically dead for "added flavour" is...well, criticism gets you banned around here.

[Locutus]

Originally posted by OzzyKP
Another very minor suggestion. These two forums are quite dead and could be killed/archived:
Alternative Civs
Clash of Civilizations

Alt Civs have always been a key part of our lineup (even if not a very high-profile one for most of our users) and that will likely never change. I'm pretty sure we were for many years before release the only site on the web providing any kind of coverage for GalCiv as part of our Alt Civs lineup, and now Stardock's one of the premiere developers and publishers of PC strategy games (and they're about to become a lot bigger). Since their breakthrough they've paid back our support of them more than in kind. Good things come to those who wait, and we can wait for the next Alt Civ game to break into the mainstream, whether that takes 6 months or 6 years.

Clash is a hosted site of us, we provide forums for all our hosted sites as long as they request it (and as long as it doesn't become outright silly). Clash unfortunately does seem to be verging on its demise after ~9 very successful years, but this is a relatively recent development. For the time being it's up to Mark_Everson (or whoever succeeds him, if anyone) to pull the plug if he deems fit. If he doesn't but Clash remains dead we'll deal with that eventually, but not yet.

It is also odd to have categories where there is just one forum. So I suggest this as well:

Move Civ3 General into the Civ2 category and rename the category "Civilization II & III"

Combine CTP and CTP 2 into one category.

Make a new category for "Other Games" or "More Civ-Like Games We Cover" and put these in there:
RoN General
MoO Series General
GalCiv Series General
Spore

We considered the Civ2/3 merger but decided against it, at least for now. On the other things, I think you got what you wanted

Now I'm *really* off to bed

[Lancer]

Locutus, while I agree that adding in the existing #s to the OT doesn't add much the upsurge I'm thinking will happen is when people who post in the OT get interested in a history thread they would not otherwise see. Same with tech and sports. Merge them all and watch what happens. Sure, some who are disappointed at the merger might leave, but if things are left as they are...well you know my prediction.

Also, much of the upsurge in the first six months just might have been due to the discussion regarding the closing of the forum? Lots of people showed up to vote to keep it open than show up to post...to keep it open.

My point, adding the existing #s isn't a true reflection of what merging will achieve. That's all, don't mean to harp on the subject.

[Lancer]

Also, one more point. If the people who post in the OT have more stuff going on to interest them they are less likely to leave. By removing these big three topics from the OT it was made a dull place. Add in the earlier execution of S&D and the OT can be a really dull visit. Not much there to hold interest. Never used to be like that. I'm not saying that if what originally worked is reassembled that it's a sure thing, but it's worth trying rather than watching those that are left, follow those that have left.

Edited by Locutus: a friendly reminder that off-topic discussion in this thread will be deleted, as per my earlier post.

[PLATO]

Originally posted by Wiglaf

http://apolyton.net/forums/forumdisplay.php?s=&forumid=151

$10 to anyone who tells me what that's all about. The Nugog-Velociryx PM forum? I report, you decide!

I'll take this one.

This forum has lots of secret little places. In it lies the blueprint for an extremely exciting and very cool game that Vel is developing. There is much discussion with the folks doing the actual coding and continual feedback and testing.

Vel and his team are working hard to truly develop a world class game. The website that Vel had for the game was hacked pretty bad a couple of years ago and I believe much was lost. Poly has been good enough to host the development of this game. It is one of the really important gaming functions this site does while not making a big deal about it at all.

Wiglaf, please use the $10 to extend my Poly PLUS subscription. It is much appreciated.

[Wiglaf]

Vel can pretend he is making the best game of all time if he wants. He doesn't need his own forum to talk with Nugog about it.

[PLATO]

Originally posted by Wiglaf
Vel can pretend he is making the best game of all time if he wants. He doesn't need his own forum to talk with Nugog about it.

Speak not of that which you have no knowledge.

There are far more folks there than just Vel and Nugog, and I promise you that Vel is not pretending. This game will be awesome...and it is closer than you think.

[Lancer]

Thanks for the link PLATO, that looks like an excellent concept for a game.

[Colonâ„¢]

I like the mergers. Pretty much what I was hoping for (except of keeping the Off-Topic subforums).