Announcement

**DrSpike** · February 17, 2008, 18:28

Multiplaying that is not PBEM encompasses TCP/IP. It doesn't need a separate label.

**Locutus** · February 17, 2008, 18:43

It's not quite the same. PTBS is distinctly different from PBEM and it's inside the larger MP forum. TCP/IP however is already a very common form of MP -- one could argue that MP and TCP/IP are pretty much synonyms the way they're commonly used on this site -- and there's only one SMAC MP forum to begin with.

If we were to merge all the Civ4 MP forums we wouldn't call it Civ4-Multiplaying/PBEM/PTBS/SG -- too long and obscure of a title, that would only risk intimidating new users. Along the same lines AC-Multiplaying/PBEM/TCP/IP does not make for a good title either. Something like AC-PBEM & TCP/IP might work but the title needs to cover all other forms of MP as well and new users might not know what either of those abbreviations means. AC-Multiplaying/PBEM is a catch-all title that covers every form of MP play, is understandable for new users and consistent with the titles we use for other MP forums for other games.

**Mercator** · February 17, 2008, 18:46

Originally posted by Locutus
(...) I think it would be good to still keep some separation between Scenario League and all other Civ2 discussion.

What Civ2 General definitely does need is for some of its topped threads to be untopped and for the default display to be increased from 'last 10 days' to last month or 3 months, like most forums have.

I agree. And I'd also like to add that the Scenario League forum is the forum of a hosted site, so I don't think it would be a good idea to get rid of it by merging it with Civ2 General.

On the other hand, the Scenario League activity might help boost the general/help/strategy discussions if they are merged.

Civilization - Earlier Incarnations
--Civilization II
--Civilization III

Hmmm, I'd rather not see that. The section title there is rather cumbersome to begin with. But then if Civ3 is really dead and will be reduced to one forum it probably deserves about the same treatment as what I mentioned for Call to Power earlier. Except here the later game is the odd one out... Civ3 really sucked, didn't it?

**Hercules** · February 17, 2008, 18:54

Something like AC-PBEM & TCP/IP might work

I could live with that. It shows those discovering multiplayer SMACX for the first time (growing), the active global options.

And it's not a big ask.

**curtsibling** · February 17, 2008, 19:05

Originally posted by -Jrabbit
As one of the few remaining Civ2 contributors, I see no reason for any sub-listings under Civilization2. Surely the Scenario League and Multiplaying can be combined with General.

One of the few?

We have plenty of contributors, and we are not dying out.

I really oppose any merging of the active CIV2 SL forums in the most strident terms.

We are delighted to be above the CIV3 area, as Locutus proposes in his new structure. We
have posts on a daily basis with the best CIV2 content on the net being created regularly.

Merging us with CIV2 general will destroy the cohesion of our forum, and lose Poly a valuable group of posters.

...

**Locutus** · February 17, 2008, 19:55

Originally posted by Hercules
I could live with that. It shows those discovering multiplayer SMACX for the first time (growing), the active global options.

A single look inside the forum will tell you what the active options are. Not using the term Multiplaying excludes other forms of MP and will create confusion for some new users that don't know the meaning of either abbreviation -- a big part of the purpose of this reorganisation is to make interesting stuff easier to find for newcomers (and outside of Civ4, SMAC MP is definitely one of our biggest treasures, along with our Spanish community, Scenario League and the CtP2 source code). With Multiplaying in the title anyone looking for any kind of SMAC MP play will know where to go, and one click will show them what the current options are.

Look at it this way: until a few months ago PBEM was by far the most dominant form of MP that was discussed in that forum. If we'd renamed the forum to just PBEM back then to reflect that, that might actually have ended up hurting the revival that the forum is currently undergoing because people might not think to look there for IP games.

Like I said, Multiplaying/PBEM is a good catch-all title. If I'd change it to anything I'd drop the PBEM part (i.e. keep the current name), but we know PBEM has always been hugely popular on this site, for both SMAC and other games: a lot of people come here primarily to play PBEM, so it'd be good to promote that specifically.

**Locutus** · February 17, 2008, 20:11

Originally posted by Mercator
I agree. And I'd also like to add that the Scenario League forum is the forum of a hosted site, so I don't think it would be a good idea to get rid of it by merging it with Civ2 General.

I agree, that's part of it as well (although if it became necessary we could find ways to work around that, but I don't feel that's the case here).

On the other hand, the Scenario League activity might help boost the general/help/strategy discussions if they are merged.

Considering how many SGs are being run from the Civ4 PBEM & SG forum I doubt it would -- in anything it would have the opposite effect. I've seen similar things in other forums: if one topic is considerably more dominant than the other, the latter will in time often disappear altogether.

Hmmm, I'd rather not see that. The section title there is rather cumbersome to begin with. But then if Civ3 is really dead and will be reduced to one forum it probably deserves about the same treatment as what I mentioned for Call to Power earlier. Except here the later game is the odd one out... Civ3 really sucked, didn't it?

Yes, Civ3 is really the odd one out in that aside from a running DG it's a fairly recent game that has zero community left -- it's still popular on CFC but not here.

Originally posted by curtsibling
Merging us with CIV2 general will destroy the cohesion of our forum, and lose Poly a valuable group of posters.

That's a bit melodramatic but I agree it's not a good idea

Since Mercator beat me to the punch in promoting this thread in the Civ2 forums (

), I do want to reiterate my comment that I'm very interested in hearing what the Civ2 community thinks of the Civ2-PBEM forum: should it stay where it is, become a subforum of Civ2-General or Civ2-Scenario League, or even be merged with either of those? I had a closer look at it and it only has 2 active games (and it's been like that for the last 6 months) so keeping it on the front page is becoming a bit hard to justify at this point.

**Arthedain** · February 17, 2008, 20:14

I think the civ2 section is fine the way it is tbh.

**-Jrabbit** · February 17, 2008, 20:23

I confess to being woefully uninformed regarding the activity level of Civ2 Scenario League. Mea culpa. No slight was intended.

**Harry Tuttle** · February 17, 2008, 20:53

Originally posted by -Jrabbit
I confess to being woefully uninformed regarding the activity level of Civ2 Scenario League. Mea culpa. No slight was intended.

Off with his head!

**Harry Tuttle** · February 17, 2008, 21:01

The Scenario League forums are like the United States Marine Corps. No matter how many times the politicians try to disband them or roll them in with Army or Navy the Marines always prevail.

**McMonkey** · February 17, 2008, 21:02

I only ever post in the CivII Scenario Creation section which is alive and well. The community may be small but it is very dedicated and some new members appear from time to time (I joined just over a year ago). As long as the CivII Scenario Creation thread is left alone I will be happy.

The CivII PBEM section seems fairly dead. I play my multiplayer games at Civ Webring which is similar to the Scenario League in that it has a small but very dedicated core of players.

I don't think I have posted in the General Discussion section so I will not comment on that.

**curtsibling** · February 17, 2008, 21:20

Originally posted by Locutus
That's a bit melodramatic but I agree it's not a good idea

My apologies!

But I knew a bit of drama would get the point noticed!

Originally posted by Locutus
Since Mercator beat me to the punch in promoting this thread in the Civ2 forums (

), I do want to reiterate my comment that I'm very interested in hearing what the Civ2 community thinks of the Civ2-PBEM forum: should it stay where it is, become a subforum of Civ2-General or Civ2-Scenario League, or even be merged with either of those? I had a closer look at it and it only has 2 active games (and it's been like that for the last 6 months) so keeping it on the front page is becoming a bit hard to justify at this point.

I would not presume to speak on behalf of the PBEM crew, but I think if we logically consider the activity levels,
then it seems the SL forum should remain as is, and the PBEM forum perhaps be subjugated to the CIV2-general area...

...

**curtsibling** · February 17, 2008, 21:21

Originally posted by Harry Tuttle
The Scenario League forums are like the United States Marine Corps. No matter how many times the politicians try to disband them or roll them in with Army or Navy the Marines always prevail.

Semper Fidelis, brother!

**Krill** · February 17, 2008, 21:43

That should be "Semper fidelis, frater"

Announcement

Major forum restructuring

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment