Asher is banned

[PLATO]

Originally posted by lord of the mark


A. Thats why you make suggestions to the owner, in private. If you are unpersuasive, why should he open it up to the community to discuss? I mean he could do that if he wanted to, but if he chooses not to (and thats been a long settled policy here, and at many other sites as well) why would someone keep getting angry at that?

B. For all the "authoritarian modding is killing poly" assertions, I dont see CFC or PEF declining. People always leave sites, they are refreshed by new people drawn by the sites specialty, which here is Civ gaming. I dont own Civ 4, so I dont really follow that part of the site, but I imagine thats where the success or failure of the site really lies.

A. I think that public discussion is good on some things. Sometimes good things come from group input. Sometimes people just need to vent.

B. Where I see the PM problem with the Mods is (and please take this constructively!) is the tone that is used in PMs. I believe that you can be firm without name calling or being confrontational. A simple statement of the rule broken, the penalty, and what is needed to be back. There is no reason for ongoing discussion unless the offending poster actually has a point to discuss. A nice out of jail {debt paid to society kind of thng) at release would be a good touch. Firm and Civil moderation will run no one off.

[Lorizael]

Originally posted by Solver


Potential new posters drawn away by the atmosphere/insults are an even subtler thing. Look at the OTF. How many regular posters do you see that registered recently, say, this year? Granted, we can never know how many people were scared away. But I do know for a fact some were. I remember some Settlers posting a thread for the first time and being met with responses like "No one wants to read that, go away".

That stuff does translate into a good amount of members we never gained.

I already made this point, but the mods ignored it. Maybe I should make a thread about it?

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by PLATO


I have a couple of issues with this line of thinking:

1.) The hosts have invited people into their home.
2.) The host is responsible for creating a comfortable environment for his/her guests, which in this type of community means one where rules are fairly applied to all.

See, I dont buy that. Its still private, and if someone pisses the host off, the host can take that into account. A personal judgement of who is a bad guest. People are treating it like the mods/owners are a trial court judges, with everyone who posts here being the court of appeals, entitled to review in detail the basis for the decision, consistency with previous rulings, etc.

Fine, if thats the only kind of community you want to post in, go post in one. I think you will find it highly limits your choices of communities.

[Varwnos]

:/

Indeed there should be severe warnings, or even automatic bans in such cases. Unless you want the OT to become an elephant cemetery.

[Ming]

Originally posted by PLATO
B. Where I see the PM problem with the Mods is (and please take this constructively!) is the tone that is used in PMs. I believe that you can be firm without name calling or being confrontational. A simple statement of the rule broken, the penalty, and what is needed to be back. There is no reason for ongoing discussion unless the offending poster actually has a point to discuss. A nice out of jail {debt paid to society kind of thng) at release would be a good touch. Firm and Civil moderation will run no one off.

While I agree in theory...
I have been threatened
My family has been threatened
I've had a hate site set up against me
People threatened to contact my employer to see if they could get me fired
My computer has been hacked, and thank god I have better protection now, because the attacks continue
And some people usually start their PM's with **** you...

I've released many posters after having a "real discussion with them"... the problem is, many posters don't want a real discussion... to them, we are wrong and they are right, even when the facts say otherwise.

Remember, we are contacting people who have broken the rules... we are not doing it to be sociable.

[Solver]

Originally posted by Kuciwalker

Originally posted by varwnos
However at CFC whenever someone begins to be offensive there are immediate warnings, and if he continues to be so he is banned.

That's slightly better than the massive inconsistency (yes, read personal vendetta like DanQ said) we have now.

Funny you should say that. Under the CFC OT rules, most of our OT posters wouldn't last a day without being warned. And would be banned before long. You are certainly among the people who'd get warnings very fast.

I'm not saying this in support of their policy, I just find it funny that you think it's in any way better than what we have here.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Kuciwalker

For all the "authoritarian modding is killing poly" assertions, I dont see CFC or PEF declining. People always leave sites, they are refreshed by new people drawn by the sites specialty, which here is Civ gaming. I dont own Civ 4, so I dont really follow that part of the site, but I imagine thats where the success or failure of the site really lies.

Have you read the stuff in their OTF? We don't want to attract the kind of people they do.

I havent read CFC OT, I have read and posted in PEF's OT, though rarely. In some ways its better than Poly, in others worse. I must say, the "Transylvania is Romanian - No, its Hungarian" flamewars I find both more amusing, and more informative, than "Heres why Fizzics is great, and sociologists are idiots"

[Ari Rahikkala]

Originally posted by lord of the mark
Coming here is like visiting someones home, that they have kindly opened to outsiders, in pursuit of some interest.

[Cort Haus]

Originally posted by Oerdin
The thing I liked best was how KH posted a Leaving Forever thread and then DanQ banned him for it. Oh, the irony.

That happened to me at another site.

If people complain about the Administration here, they should have seen that place. The chief administrator flamed and abused people left right and centre for disagreeing with him on on-topic subjects for that forum. He'd ban people for their views (on a sport) while posting in a way that would get him banned at many averagely-moderated sites.

On their community forum he and others were praising some 14-year-old spammer for his high post count. I chipped in and said "why is this guy getting kudos when he's contributed nothing" and then got I crucified for it. So I flounced off and heard the door lock behind me on my way out. A real circle-jerk of a site, that was.

[Solver]

I already made this point, but the mods ignored it. Maybe I should make a thread about it?

It's not "ignored", don't worry.

One more thing I want to point out with regards to CFC. They have a strict rule forbidding any discussion of moderator action. CFC posters are never allowed to engage in a dialogue with the mods like you are in this thread. Even complaining about a closed thread or edited post there will get you a warning...

[PLATO]

Originally posted by lord of the mark



See, I dont buy that. Its still private, and if someone pisses the host off, the host can take that into account. A personal judgement of who is a bad guest. People are treating it like the mods/owners are a trial court judges, with everyone who posts here being the court of appeals, entitled to review in detail the basis for the decision, consistency with previous rulings, etc.

Fine, if thats the only kind of community you want to post in, go post in one. I think you will find it highly limits your choices of communities.

I think you are not reading me correctly. You are definately quoting me incompletely.

Of course the Owner's can do what they want. To have the kind of membership that they want, however, compels a doctrine of fairness. This may be te best Civ site, but it is not the only option. If there is a perception that the host is not a good one, then people will move on to other sites. Much akin to if you went to a persons house and were treated poorly...certainly their right, but would you go back?

Now, I don't believe that this thread is any kind of appeals court. I have been around Poly far to long to be that naive. This is simply a boon the owner's have granted to allow people to vent. I would be amazed beyond belief if it actually had any effect on their decisions.

[Varwnos]

A good idea would be to post the rules as a sticky thread in the OT forum, urging people to read them.

Then, if someone breaks a rule, you could simply pm them the rule that was broken, and state that it has earned them a warning, or a ban, according to the offence.

Such calm and unpassionate moderating helps build the community, and disables the cacophony of member-moderator wars, which definately never helped any site.

[PLATO]

Originally posted by Ming


I have been threatened
My family has been threatened
I've had a hate site set up against me
People threatened to contact my employer to see if they could get me fired
My computer has been hacked

Obviously this is beyond infantile behavior and is totally unacceptable. Anyone taking any of these actions should be permanently banned...and without the slightest bit of discussion.

My point was more to the "he said...she said" kind of discussion.

It is good to remind people occasionally what the mods have to endure. However, I believe that every Mod here is thick skinned enough to take the high ground in both public and private discussions and to set a tone of civility.

[b etor]

Originally posted by varwnos
A good idea would be to post the rules as a sticky thread in the OT forum, urging people to read them.

Then, if someone breaks a rule, you could simply pm them the rule that was broken, and state that it has earned them a warning, or a ban, according to the offence.

Such calm and unpassionate moderating helps build the community, and disables the cacophony of member-moderator wars, which definately never helped any site.

i totally agree. i didn't even know there were rules until i was banned. then i spent some time looking for them.

[PLATO]

I think I saw Ming say the other day that he was working on upodating the faq. Perhaps it will be more visable when he is done