Apolyton and CivFanatics up for deletion on Wikipedia

[Solver]

I don't recall taking any journalism classes .

[DanQ]

Originally posted by DrSpike
Hear that Mark and Dan? If you sack Locutus he will rewrite the article.

On behalf of the Apolyton staff and administration, we are grateful that someone started the article more than a year ago and that others have added and improved on it since. In my view, and has already been said, Apolyton's article can benefit from a re-write of not only of existing but adding additional content and components (particularly those that will help bring the write-up to met Wikipedia's entry criteria).

In short, both Apolyton and CFC's entries on Wikipedia should remain.

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Dan; Apolyton CS

[Heresson]

Re: Apolyton and CivFanatics up for deletion on Wikipedia

Originally posted by Bill3000

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Apolyton_Civilization_Site

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Civilization_Fanatics_Center

Woo! In particular, Apolyton was placed in a VFD because someone in the CivFanatics VFD pointed out that it wasn't being voted for deletion.

[Solver]

Dan, speaking of which, I can't find the references to those print mentions of Apolyton, can you throw a link to those in?

[Locutus]

the staff members do have very sufficient information and ability to write it.

This is true. I guess I could provide somewhat of a framework of what are IMO important issues that someone more neutral could evaluate and incorporate into a proper article:


General
- one of the oldest and largest Civ sites
- Covers Civilization, Call to Power, Alpha Centauri, Galactic Civilizations, Rise of Nations, Master of Orion, Colonization, Dinosaurs, Alt Civs
- offers news, forums, file database, interviews, tournaments, contests, strategy and modding articles, pre- and post-release info, (p)reviews, podcast, machinima, free hosting services to smaller Civ sites, etc.
- independent but very close relationship with developers: site, staff and community members have been involved in the development of several of the titles covered by the site and are listed in the credits; several modders from the community now work for the companies making the games; site has been granted numerous exclusive interviews/features/etc

History
- Founded 26 July 1998 by Markos and Dan, covering Civ2 and CtP1
- name means ultimate in Greek (from Ultimate Civ2 Site and First Greek Civ2 Site)
- over the first year expanded to include SMAC, Civ1, Civ3, Alt Civs (including GalCiv, long before anyone else took notice)
- explosive growth: 6 million hits in first year, 14m in second, 22m in third; 72m hits in second half of 2002; soon #1 civ site on the web and in 2001 even among the top of all gaming sites [source: birthday features], earning numerous listings and awards in/by print gaming magazines and on other gaming websites for scope and quality of coverage [recognition]; Sid Meier lists Apolyton as his #1 bookmark in 2002

- After the announcement of Civ3 the first of several versions of The List starts to be compiled, a list of fan suggestions for the game as bigger than the New Testament (which would later frequently be cited by Firaxis as example of the fanaticism of their fan base and the volume of suggestions they get from fans, including by Soren Johnson when he announced Civ4 at GDC04 [slides])
- Years later a similar list would be developed for Civ4
- From 2002 onwards the Apolyton University is organised up to help people learn Civ3 (and later Civ4), ends up getting multiple references in educational magazines and websites, as well as mainstream gaming sites and 'zines [see recognition and Civ3 AU forum for links/info]

- CtP modders take a small scripting language added to the game to drive the tutorial and some text files with settings and start using them to design increasingly complex mods, which encourages Activision to expand the modding capabilities in patches
- When CtP2 is announced, top CtP1 modders from Apolyton are asked to alpha-test the game and they help make CtP2 become the most moddable strategy game until Civ4 is released (in fact, Civ4's modding capabilites are based on/inspired by CtP2); Civ2/CtP1 modder Harlan Thompson does freelance design work for the game (Alexander the Great scenario); Apolyton provides server resources to support game testing and is listed in the credits when the game is released
- In 2001 Activision end all support of the CtP series a month after the games release, refers customers in need of support to Apolyton
- In 2003, Activision releases the full source code of CtP2 after months of lobbying by the Apolyton community with the support of the former lead programmer Joe Rumsey, which leads to headline news on mainstream websites like Slashdot and the BBC
- From 2005 onwards the Apolytoner Stan Karpinski with some help from other Apolyton members developered an unofficial sequel to CtP2, Ages of Man, which he attempted to get published but Activision refused to cooperate; the game was then distributed through Apolyton free-of-charge and development continued on Apolyton which hosts the game's website and forums

- In 2002 Apolyton was granted an exclusive interview/preview with Brian Reynolds at his summer home about Rise of Nations; in 2003 an exclusive preview (featured on Slashdot) for Master of Orion III was published
- In 2005 Apolyton starts Age of Nations, the first-ever machinima series for a strategy game, based on the RoN engine
- Apolytoner and RoN modder Kevin Chulski (DarthVeda) joins BHG as a designer and worked on Rise of Legends

- In 2004 Firaxis starts recruiting prominent Apolytoners as pre-alpha testers for Civ4, some of which end up being hired by the company (Jon Shafer, Alex Mantzaris, Robert Thomas) while others end up doing freelance scenario design work on the game (Martin Isaksen, Dale Kent, Wouter Snijders, Gabriele Trovato) and Jan van der Crabben uses this experience to get a job as a designer by Creative Assembly; Apolyton provides server resources to support game testing and is listed in the credits when the game is released

- In an era where the word podcast is yet to be invented, Apolyton launches a weekly 'radio show' in 2001 which would run (with some interruptions) for 5 years
- In 2006 the 'radio show' is cancelled and replace by a modern podcast, PolyCast
- In 2006 Apolyton organises the first-ever Civilization convention, ApolyCon, with people like Sid Meier, Brian Reynolds and Soren Johnson as special guests

Edit: can't leave out Vel:
- some of the outstanding strategy articles on Apolyton written by Christopher Hartpence for Alpha Centauri ended up being published in print in the form of a strategy guide in 2001
- later on some of Hartpence's fictional stories set in the SMAC universe also ended up being published (and even later other non-Apolyton-related works as well)
- Hartpence is currently working on converting the strategy articles in Apolyton's Civ4 forums into a strategy guide for that game as well
- Hartpence also was inspired discussions on Apolyton to start his own gaming company to design his own games; many of the employees and volunteers involved with this company were recruited from the Apolyton community and the group uses Apolyton's forums to communicate their efforts

Links for historical stuff:

http://apolyton.net/about/oneyear/

http://apolyton.net/about/2years/ ... http://apolyton.net/about/6years/

http://apolyton.net/about/10/126/

http://apolyton.net/about/10/125/

http://civilization4.net/files/johnson_soren.zip (GDC04 slides)

[Nubclear]

I agree that the current article doesn't really show it to be fitting under WP:WEB,

This, I believe, shows as it as notable per WP:WEB, though again, it does need a rewrite citing those references.

[DanQ]

Originally posted by Solver
Dan, speaking of which, I can't find the references to those print mentions of Apolyton, can you throw a link to those in?

, please do.

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Dan; Apolyton CS

[DanQ]

to your summary above, Locutus.

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Dan; Apolyton CS

[Locutus]

Just after I signed off last night I realised I had completely forgotten about Vel, who obviously can't be absent from a summary like this (previous post updated with this):

- some of the outstanding strategy articles on Apolyton written by Christopher Hartpence for Alpha Centauri ended up being published in print in the form of a strategy guide in 2001
- later on some of Hartpence's fictional stories set in the SMAC universe also ended up being published (and even later other non-Apolyton-related works as well)
- Hartpence is currently working on converting the strategy articles in Apolyton's Civ4 forums into a strategy guide for that game as well
- Hartpence also was inspired discussions on Apolyton to start his own gaming company to design his own games; many of the employees and volunteers involved with this company were recruited from the Apolyton community and the group uses Apolyton's forums to communicate their efforts

[Solver]

Originally posted by Comrade Tassadar

I agree that the current article doesn't really show it to be fitting under WP:WEB,

This, I believe, shows as it as notable per WP:WEB, though again, it does need a rewrite citing those references.

The idea is that the article's content, in its current shape, doesn't assert or show that Apolyton is notable per WP:WEB, while overall it is, considering things that aren't written in it. In other words: it's just a piss-poor article.

[Solver]

Good summary Locutus, though some points are not entirely fitting for Wikipedia, as far as I understand their policies. For example, I'm not sure if Vel's current efforts with the Civ4 guide fit under their policy, but heck, those should probably be in anyway . Of course, the summary would also be better if it didn't mention you .

About Jan and Creative Assembly - is that info public ?

[Ming]

Haven't some of the city names in the Civ games been inspired by Apolyton

[Locutus]

several modders from the community now work for the companies making the games

Including, we now know, Soren Johnson himself.

Originally posted by Ming
Haven't some of the city names in the Civ games been inspired by Apolyton

Good point, that should be in there

[Maniac]

Originally posted by Solver
About Jan and Creative Assembly - is that info public ?

He posted it on CivFanatics.

[Asher]

Delete 'em both. No place for game sites on wikipedia.