Is Apolyton still the biggest Civ site?

[Bugs ****ing Bunny]

The fact that someone chose to pass some bizarre decisions about how they are counted indicates that at least one person take this issue far too seriously, wouldn't you agree?

[MMC]

Personally, I believe that the classic Google method is the easiest way to determine which site is best. What I mean by this is:

The number of external sites linking to a website show how useful outsiders find it,
and show how willing people are to recommend the site.

Whilst this is easily open to abuse, the particular category of website that Apolyton falls under does not suffer this kind of abuse enough to skew results.

Therefore, in the listed Alexa listings, Apolyton comes out on top. This is not because of its overwhelming number of posts/posters, but because of its quality and (until you step into the OT) welcoming atmosphere.

That said, I did a simple Google.co.uk search for 'Civilization' (english sites only) and got the the following:
Page 1:


Page 2:

[Locutus]

Originally posted by Ming
So, you admit you are just making up numbers... looking at old data from non consitent periods, and guesing...

No, I'm comparing FACTUAL numbers. The forum stats are based on years of obvservation (although of course the most recent numbers are the most valued ones) and the server data is only 6-12 months old so still relevant, especially since they do not change that rapidly (with the exception of the peak surrounding Civ4's release but that was taken into account), both Apolyton and CFC are pretty stable in their traffic over a prolonged period of time. This might not be true for websites in general, but it is true here. That's something that no tool can tell you (unless you specifically track it for specific sites), only good old manual labour...

So simply guessing is more acurate than use a tool designed to make such estimates?

Not 'simply' guessing, educated guessing, based on FACTUAL server data rather than imprecise and indirect metadata, which is ALSO guesswork, only based on less reliable sources.

But I probably have a better grasp of research and it's limititations

Obvously not. You seem to fail to grasp the concepts and algorithms underlying the tools you use and the meaning of real data.

If you could document data from the same time period in the last week from both sites, I might take you seriously... but how can I take you seriously when you have admited you simply guessed based on old data.

Last week?? You've got to be kidding me. You can't make any remotely realistic statement based on such a short period of time, there are countless factors that can influence the traffic for such a short time period. Any meaningful statement about traffic -- especially if you're comparing different sites -- has to be measured over a period of weeks at the very minimum, months if you want it to have real relevance.

You can continue to ignore the facts... but there is good data out there that proves you wrong. But then again, you think guessing works better

Right back at ya. You seem to be completely oblivious to the fact that your tools are ALSO guessing. You have not considered a single real statistic, if that's not ignoring facts I don't know what is...

[MMC]

EDIT: Wrong button!

[Ming]

Then if you are SOOOOOO sure.... why don't you bet some big money on it.

I'm totally confident about the reality of the situation here... while you hide behind a silly notion that unless you have exact data, that there is no way to know.
Are you afraid to put some money where your mouth is

Nahhh... you will probably continue to say, estimates from different reliable sources aren't as good as you pulling numbers out of the air

[Skanky Burns]

Originally posted by Japher
If CFC is bigger than Apolyton it obvious why... Babe Threads.

Thus, I would like to appeal to the management that we should reinstate Babe Threads for the sake of mainting the supremacy of this site. Just a note, however, if some gay posters (or female posters, or males pretending to being female posters) want to post pics of guys they should do so in their own thread so as not to tarnish the good name of Babe Threads.

BRING BACK BABE THREADS!!!

Even though this thread is clearly stupid, there are still some gems in here.

[Locutus]

Originally posted by Ming
Then if you are SOOOOOO sure.... why don't you bet some big money on it.

Gods, how THICK are you? I keep saying I am NOT sure, noone CAN be sure. That's the whole point, I've been saying that in EVERY SINGLE POST in this thread. READ before you reply for crap's sake. I keep saying it's all about chance, percentages, estimates and vagueness. I'm only making claims about certain things being more LIKELY than others. YOU are the one who's so sure about everything, clinging onto the illustion of absolute truth that your precious little tools offer you. Hey, if that works for you, great, you can bet all the money you want on that, but I know a bad investment when I see one. Almost ANY bet related to the relative sizes of CFC and Apolyton is a bad investment...

[Grandpa Troll]

Originally posted by Locutus


Gods, how THICK are you? I keep saying I am NOT sure, noone CAN be sure. That's the whole point, I've been saying that in EVERY SINGLE POST in this thread. READ before you reply for crap's sake. I keep saying it's all about chance, percentages, estimates and vagueness. I'm only making claims about certain things being more LIKELY than others. YOU are the one who's so sure about everything, clinging onto the illustion of absolute truth that your precious little tools offer you. Hey, if that works for you, great, you can bet all the money you want on that, but I know a bad investment when I see one. Almost ANY bet related to the relative sizes of CFC and Apolyton is a bad investment...

Still no Nukelar Fallout, Ming..Ming..you still here? or did Locutus sink yer Battleship?

[TCO]

Originally posted by Ming


Probably not a good idea... unless you want to start posting under a different log on in the future

Oh...not perma-banned?

[TCO]

Dudes, this is insane. What have my people fallen too? Passed by the pipsquekz at CFC!?

[Ming]

Originally posted by Locutus
Gods, how THICK are you? I keep saying I am NOT sure, noone CAN be sure.

That's why I asked you to feel free and get the data from Thunderfall... so you could compare it to the data you say you can see here.

That's the whole point, I've been saying that in EVERY SINGLE POST in this thread. READ before you reply for crap's sake.

You seem to be the one that's not reading.

I keep saying it's all about chance, percentages, estimates and vagueness. I'm only making claims about certain things being more LIKELY than others.

That your guesses based on old data are better than something done more recent, and from multiple perspectives, which all happen to show a similar percentage... again, since you don't seem to be reading my posts... I don't know the absolute number either. But all the facts (except your wild guesses) point to a minimum of a two to one advantage.

YOU are the one who's so sure about everything, clinging onto the illustion of absolute truth that your precious little tools offer you.

I'm positive the tools you try to demean will provide proof of relative viewership. Do you have to bend over to check where your numbers are coming from

Hey, if that works for you, great, you can bet all the money you want on that, but I know a bad investment when I see one.

Becasuse you know you're wrong Anybody viewing reality can see the obvious

Almost ANY bet related to the relative sizes of CFC and Apolyton is a bad investment...

Yeah... for you, because the statements I'm making are true.

I can also say with absolute certainty that Apolyton has tons times the traffic that FFZ gets... But I don't need the industry standard high priced tools to tell me that.
That's because I don't need exact numbers to spot a oonsistent trend

[TCO]

You're threadjacking my troll by having a real discussion, damnit. Pretty butt-boring one, too.

[Grandpa Troll]

Originally posted by TCO
You're threadjacking my troll by having a real discussion, damnit. Pretty butt-boring one, too.

Somone threadjacked me?

Will I make it?

[Master Zen]

I wonder with what moral authority mods can tell other posters to keep discussions civil when they seem perfectly incapable themselves of following the rules they supposedly enforce.

To think I was banned once for engaging in the EXACT same thing that is happening in this thread....

the times they are a-changin'

Edit: forgot, got a PCR too

[Lancer]

The admins are either unable or unwilling to police the mods to prevent abuse. This thread is a perfect example.