Traffic Rankings Vs. CivFanatics

[OzzyKP]

With the understanding that we all care about Apolyton and are simply making suggestions for the improvement of 'poly, not to criticize, I do agree with IW's thoughts on the subject. I think the Apolyton front page is rather disorganized and could very much be cleaned up to be more helpful, informative, and visually appealing.

Of course most of us here (me at least) rarely visit the homepage of apolyton.net, it is good for bringing in new people. Having that be a welcoming portal from which to access lots of information on various civ subjects is needed.

Even in the forums, the header is very confusing and cluttered. At least on the default skin that I use. Even something simple like going to my user CP takes a bit of searching through all the clutter of links up there. It would be helpful too to have some kind of continuity between the forums and the rest of the page by using a common header.

I say this as the owner/director/admin of my own page. We are currently looking into a redesign ourselves, so I know that this process can be frustrating at times when people are pointing out things they dislike about the current page and design (especially one that has been around for a while and/or something you had a hand in creating), but I think its healthy and needed for the betterment of the site itself.

So yes, I do prefer the Apolyton community over CivFanatics. But if we think growth is a good thing (maybe not, i dunno) then we should discuss ways to improve the site, make it more useful and appealing, and draw in more people. Of course this probably should have happened before Civ4 came out, and this was not my intention with starting this thread, but again if growth is a priority then it is something we should consider.

Apolyton is a great community, but it is also a business. And the people running this business (and the rest of us too) should give some thoughts to what our goals are and how to reach those goals.

Just a thought.

[Martin Gühmann]

Originally posted by MarkG
i hate to get into a sites comparison discussion but....

Well than we should start a discussion about Apolyton. But first:

Originally posted by MarkG

Their pre-release information page is still the #2 google hit for "Civ4".

does google ranking equals quality?

the most recent joke on the greek internet is that some people managed to get the public telecommunications company to be the first hit when you google the word "thieves" in greek

That's right, you can spoof google. The trick is to put two unrelated words on many sites together. And so it is no wonder that you find pages topped ranked even if you can't find the keyword there.

You just need to google for failure and the number one falure you find there is George W. Bush's biography. And second place got Micheal Moore.

However I don't think that this was done with Civfanatics. Fact is if I google for Civilization I find Civfanatics on the second place, while Apolyton is under the first 30, yeah on page three.

And that's a problem for popularity. However I still don't consider a site that does not have decent CTP2 coverage as real civilization site at least they could have posted a news item about the CTP2 source code release. Even Civ3.de had one.

Now let's talk about apolyton, Ben is right about the fact that the layout could be improved.

If you are new to Apolyton, probably the first thing you want to do is download something. For instance a patch for one of your favorite games, or a mod. Or you want help.

Well for help you have the forums I think this is clear. But for downloads, where do I find them. Usually on every site the term downloads refers to downloads, who knows that you call your download center directory.

So the first thing you see on the home page is that you have a bunch of categories about various games, but you only see that you cover these games somehow. But you don't see in how particular.

For instance you don't know on the homepage that you have these categories for CTP2:

News | Archive
Files
Source Code Project!
Modification
History | Information/Help
HOF/Tournaments
Screenshots | Art
Forums
(P)Reviews | Links

Would be nice to have this on the first view. But that means you have to chose a smaller font, of course. And you would have to turn this side menu into a real side menu.
And with this side menu there is something more wrong, these links above from the CTP2 section illustrate it as well. On a real side menu you expect only column so that you can move your eyes down quickly. Here you have to move your eyes sometimes to the right, especially you have to spot the seperators. That reduces the clarity.

Of course adding a real side menu implies that you have to do also something about the middle part of the home page. I doubt that there should be a centered log in form. That looks like you want to force new people to register.
For new people it isn't the first priority to register at new sites, they seek for information. So at place information belongs to. That can be recent news items or something else.
For the news center at the right, well I don't know... But I think these images in the middle a re little bit deplaced. An image contains much more imformation than a line of text. Pages with a lot of images on tend to get very confusing for me, especially if they aren't connected to a text that is next to that image.

Of course what holds for the home page that holds for the directory as well. It needs a side menu, so you can see all the available categories on a glance. However describing to improve its design is another story.

Of course the only problem I see here is that someone is needed who does the job.

-Martin

[Immortal Wombat]

Actually, Martin is right. This is the wrong thread for this. If you would like some site feedback, Mark & Dan, a new thread would probably be a good way to discuss what Ozzie was talking about: goals, and how to reach them. People will pitch in to help if they know what the aim is, and what they can do.
(And if the grand aim is to overtake CFC in traffic stats and pagerank, then so much the better )

Originally posted by MarkG
does google ranking equals quality?

We both know the answer to that, but it's beside the point. The fact is that CFC apparently has more focused "stuff", which brings in more traffic. Being high on google is another effect of the underlying cause. I'm not even sure Apolyton is deficient, it's just an organisational thing maybe.

[MarkG]

well guess what. we never had a goal to have more traffic that site X

since last summer we have set and imho partially achieved the following goals
- improved section layout (civ4 section and others)
- more content (civ4 info, previews and reviews)
- new types of content (audio interviews)
- revival of old features (sp tournaments)
- new features (mp features coming up, as well as other unannounced stuff)
- stronger community presence (convention, cooperation in the civ4 beta program)
- quality of web site service (zero issues during civ4 newbie flood)

this isnt to say that we couldnt have done better. just a note one shouldnt look just google ranking...

as for people wanting to help we currently have an opening for a news/content editor

[DarkCloud]

In support of what I think IW stated earlier- I really think that on the first page at least- "Directory" should be renamed "DOWNLOADS" or "FILES"... I mean, hardly anyone could figure out what 'directory' means intuitively... Also, the first page of the directory doesn't say "Civization IV" under "Files" in fact, Civ IV only appears if you click on FILES first- this should be corrected- Civ IV should be directly under FILES along with all the other hotlinks for Civ II and III to attract interest.

Also- another suggestion- combine the Files section display for CTP I and CTP II- that is- have a click for "Call to Power Games" to minimize directory word clutter- there are far too many words across the top of each page for anyone to see easily.

After clicking onf Call to Power games, one could then see CTP I and CTP II choices for downloads.

As games get outdated, their importance should be minimized.

The same necessity for combination can be argued for the Civ II and III sections.

[duke o' york]

Originally posted by DarkCloud
As games get outdated, their importance should be minimized.

But all the files should still be there!
So on the main downloads page you get Civ III and Civ IV sections, with subsections to show you the range of options, whereas you only get the names of the other games, and those links will give you similar options.

[MarkG]

In support of what I think IW stated earlier- I really think that on the first page at least- "Directory" should be renamed "DOWNLOADS" or "FILES"...

we dont just have files in the directory. we've got links, screenshots, stories, strategies, etc...

[duke o' york]

So separate them into different pages, and link to them all. Or at the very least, put a description of what is to be found within next to the link.
There's about an inch worth of space below the list of hosted sites - put in some brief descriptions and shift the whole lot down flush with the bottom of the page. You could also reduce the font size for the larger links below Miscellaneous to save space.

[DarkCloud]

What I'm saying though is that no one has any idea what DIRECTORY means.

And also- I think you might misunderstand me about the other things that I'm talking about in regards to the clickthrough- in the presentation of the data on the first Directory page it doesn't even mention Civ IV- that needs updating.

Also- combine the old civ games and then provide a sub-menu from which the old material can be accessed- of course- that goes without saying.

But what I'm saying is that there are too many outdated options on the directory bars. They need to be consolidated because too many options "puts people off and confuses them."

[duke o' york]

Is it really necessary to have a link for Dinosaurs on the main page?

[duke o' york]

How'd you like these apples?

My avatar looks evil at this rubbish resolution.

[DrSpike]

Agreed again.

And get rid of that chap in the middle!

[duke o' york]

But Soren's absolutely vital to future Civ games!

[Immortal Wombat]

Originally posted by DarkCloud
Also- another suggestion- combine the Files section display for CTP I and CTP II- that is- have a click for "Call to Power Games" to minimize directory word clutter- there are far too many words across the top of each page for anyone to see easily.

After clicking onf Call to Power games, one could then see CTP I and CTP II choices for downloads.

As games get outdated, their importance should be minimized.

The same necessity for combination can be argued for the Civ II and III sections.

I think this is the wrong way around. You don't want to minimise the importance of those games, you want to minimise the importance of those games to people who don't want those games. What you want minimised is the directory. In an ideal case, it should be invisible, and the exposed parts of it should be merged seamlessly with the sections to which they refer.
The main Civ3 section should have links into the directory, but separate links to separate parts of the directory so that people click on the thing they want, rather than having to intuit the entire content system for themselves and then navigate through it.

Then there doesn't need to be a directory link on the front page, because the relevant part of the directory will still be two clicks away, through the relevant game section. Ditto the hall of fame.

[Immortal Wombat]

Originally posted by duke o' york
How'd you like these apples?

mmm, apples.