Rugby - Six Nations, S14, Lions, Can't Wait

[Andydog]

I have some sympathy for M'sieur Bastareaud, he is just a kid who got drunk and turned into a d!ckhead. I can understand the motivation behind his lie. However, he cannot get away from his responsibilities as a sportsman representing his country on a foreign tour. The angst felt by NZers when the initial report came out has justifiably turned to scorn, especially as it is now emerging that the French management knew about the lie all along and didn't set things straight to avoid tarnishing NZ's reputation prior to the RWC. In my eyes, that makes the French management a bigger bunch of d!ckheads than Bastareaud.

It looks to me unless certain players can return that NZ have to be favourite for the wooden spoon in the tri-nations? Australia look quite promising. The Boks are physically formidable but play very little rugby. Could be an interesting tri-series.

I'd agree with that. After watching the convicts and the biltong biters play their pre-Tri Nations tests, and based on the kiwi performances, I’d put the Boks as favourites to win the Tri Nations, with the Aussies coming in second. But let's look at who is expected to return into the AB fold - Richie McCaw, Rodney So'oialo, Andrew Hore, Conrad Smith and Sitiveni Sivivatu. That is the captain and arguably the best player in the game, the vice captain and starting number 8, the starting hooker, the starting centre, and the starting winger who is perhaps the most dangerous attacking back in the world.

And while the three tests have been poor performances by the All Blacks, there certainly have been positives. Firstly, the unearthing of another possible world class lock in Isaac Ross, the return to form of some Blues All Blacks (Kaino, Mealamu and Rokocoko v Italy), Brad Thorn's role as a leader of the pack, and of course the experiences that the rookies would have received in these tests that can only aid their development process.

Life is peachy.

[finbar]

I wouldn't exactly have called Joe's performance against us - using the term loosely - a return to form. He got over the line for the first time in a couple of years. Beyond that, he was only fair amongst a poor effort. The depressing thing about the three Tests for me was the fairly obvious lack of onfield leadership. Despite the fact that there were still some seriously experienced players involved. Mils spent most of the weekend's match in the centres trying to organise things and couldn't.

You're right about Isaac Ross. He looks very promising. As he did through the whole S14. Obviously, with the big guns back, the ABs should be a different proposition. How different is the question, particularly without a quality #10.

[Andydog]

Perhaps "return to form" is a bit premature, but I thought that against Italy, Joe played well and played smart. He didn't have the opportunity to burn guys on the outside so used his power to great effect. I think the main reason that Joe has been struggling recently is because has been given crap ball. The 9, 10, 12 and 13 combinations haven't clicked and so he rarely gets decent service. However, when he does get it, he still manages to gain a few yards, slip a few tackles and then (most importantly) hold onto the ball so that it is recycled.

[Havak]

Yes Sheridan's cup punch was a classic. And let's be clear a sucker punch in the groin hurts like hell. BOD's hit - well he could have used the left arm better - but at least he used his right (unlike Bakkies who used neither)

But fingers in the eyes can blind (and actually even kill). There really is no comparison at all between Burger and BOD/Sheridan - gouging has no place in the game and 8 weeks for it is a typically SH joke. Like McCrae and certain Kiwis before him he has hardly been punished at all for assaulting a Lion.

And as for just 2 weeks for deliberately busting someones shoulder - only in the SH do you get away that lightly I suspect?

[LDiCesare]

The ABs were giving game time to their youth.

Because they ahd no other choice, and it may be a bit late. Fortunately it's not RWC season, but if they don't try to get more young players tuned to test-level by the world cup, they better pray that they don't suffer injuries.

what goes on inside players' heads sometimes.

Wind?

[finbar]

Perhaps "return to form" is a bit premature, but I thought that against Italy, Joe played well and played smart.

On top of injury, Joe also gained virtually nix from the Blues this season. There was little consistent ball. A bit like Lote Tuqiri with the Waratahs. Hardly saw the pill, now he's paying the price with the Wallabies. Joe's not as confident as he can be or handling as well as he can but he'll probably get better with game time.

Yes Sheridan's cup punch was a classic. And let's be clear a sucker punch in the groin hurts like hell. BOD's hit - well he could have used the left arm better - but at least he used his right (unlike Bakkies who used neither)

But fingers in the eyes can blind (and actually even kill). There really is no comparison at all between Burger and BOD/Sheridan - gouging has no place in the game and 8 weeks for it is a typically SH joke.

I wasn't comparing Burger to BOD or Frankenstein. I said, "Burger aside" it was fierce, old-fashioned rugby. Burger aside, both sides dished it out. Bakkies got his time, and Burger should have got more, I agree. It looked to be on a par with Quinlan and he got 12 weeks.

Wind?

Nuh. Wind can't exist in a vacuum.

[kittenOFchaos]

As there are on the BBC forum. Whingers.

The BBC rugby forum has to be amongst the worst I've ever seen online, it is jerk central.

[finbar]

Too true. It's a shame. Makes our threads look like Nobel Prize-winning literature.

[finbar]

Shame that John O'Neill, who has been gunning for Lote Tuquiri since he returned to the ARU, seems finally to have won the day. Lote was signed to his huge contract by Gary Flowers under the previous administration. O'Neill always thought it was too much money and has been itching to do something about it. Lote would only needed to have burped in public. No one yet knows what his contract-ending sin was. It might have been serious, it might not. Whatever, Lote brought a lot more to the Wallabies game than just speed on the wing.

[Havak]

I missed the "Burger aside" part, apologies.

O'Neill is a man Rugby Australia should do without - he does them no favours. Lote is a fine player whatever his personal failings.

A dead Lions rubber that may have saved future tours. Stupid selections by the fruit loop - a hooker and a back line not up to the standard started the game. The lad who replaced Botha did no such thing.

But most remarkable was the tunraround in style - the Lions were the ones with controlled agression in spades, the Boks the ones struggling with the physicality. You always know you have the Boks when the cheap shots start - and Mr Dickinson marching the boks back into their 22 for the late take out of kearney (I think - him or Jones, I was drinking at the time!) was when I knew the Lions had this one secure.

Will I travel to Australia in four years to see if manners have improved there? Probably not.

[kittenOFchaos]

The Boks were lucky to win the series period.

First test and second test the Lions had more than enough opportunity to win. But for the dodgy dealing with the scrum in the first test and Monye blowing two great chances the game was as good as won. The second test just required O'Gara to have kept his cool going after the high ball...

The gap in quality was minimal.


Oh, and I won some more money from Paddy Power - I've done VERY well betting on rugby this year

[finbar]

O'Neill is a man Rugby Australia should do without - he does them no favours. Lote is a fine player whatever his personal failings.

Lote is also immensely popular amongst his collegues. Apparently there's quite a stink brewing amongst the players over what happened. George Smith has come out in no uncertain terms. It's blatantly obviously a cost-cutting measure. Lote is taking legal action and it may well cost the ARU anyway. In the meantime, I suspect Lote will earn very nicely in NH rugby. I wouldn't be surprised if he links up with Euan McKenzie at Stade.

I was busy most of yesterday and set the match to record. Something happened after about 20 minutes and I lost everything from that point until about 30 minutes to go when I turned on live. In the first 20, the Lions looked extremely fluent and the Boks looked uncoordinated. Unsurprising given the Fruit Loop was obviously more interested in the Tri Nations than the match itself. The hooker doesn't always start for his S14 team, the back line looked more like Emerging Springboks, young and talented but terribly inexperienced. Kercher, the full back, is young and very talented but at least another season away from Test rugby. Watching the last 30 minutes live, nothing seemed to have changed from the first 20 minutes.

Will I travel to Australia in four years to see if manners have improved there? Probably not.

No chance. It will still be the immature, self-absorbed, smug, nationalistic morass I left behind four years ago.

Oh, and Graham Henry has "anointed" Luke McAlister as his #10 for the Tri Nations. No other choice, I suppose, with Stephen Donald, the only other apparent option, with a bung hamstring. Talk about a lack of*choice. I suspect McAlister's best possie is #12. He's too erratic for #10, at Test level anyway.

[Havak]

The gap in quality was huge at times - but it actually swung between the two sides. Arty Lions and Powerful Boks in my opinion. But as POC said the side that won more Tests won the series - and better sides win series. Twice under huge pressure the Boks had just enough to flop over the line, and kudos to them for it.

That said I loved the irony that this week a perfectly good try was disallowed when last week the entire series swung on a blatently bad try that was allowed.

McAllister? The much maligned English premiership found him out - the grind of our season was not to his liking. Too much bread and butter stuff. Getting Carter's shirt might bring the best out in him - front and centre stage is where he likes to be?

Ah Mr Shaw yesterday - it was painfully obvious he deliberately dropped the knee when going down on the scrummie. Any ban is richly deserved.


And the way the Boks wore touching armbands and Matfield had 'Justice' emblazoned on his scrum cap? The man Botha assaulted has had reconstructive surgery and is out for at least six months. Given his position his career may be over. So I think their protest was ill considered and a little juvenile. I'm sure the IRB will look at it for the disrepute it causes. Not to mention they let it distract them.

Mr Dickinson had a rare okay game yesterday - but then I would say that.

And Finbar Australia is a lovely place. As long as you don't talk sport. It turns most of your countrymen into what I call the "Yellow Nazis". I've never forgotten before the Melbourne test when live on Channel 7 the head of these all yellow official supporters said (swear words cut) "You are not welcome here - go home" to the Lions fans - you don't even get such shocking rudeness as an Englishman in Wales. It's unthinkable at HQ - Sky would never air it. The Channel 7 muppet just laughed in a "good on ya" way.

Indeed the taffs are very friendly and invite you to have a friendly run out for a game. So they can spend 80 mins smashing the **** out of the Englishman.

Interestingly in Hewitts last game this week a small group of the wattle mafia got final warnings from the stewards. Jingoism is not allowed at wimbers! Unless a Brit is playing.

seriously the muppets were timing shouts to disturb the opposing players serve - just not tennis old bean.

[finbar]

I think McAlister probably does like to be front and centre. He's naturally flamboyant. Part of his problem at #10. He lacks precision and guile. His predilection - now there's a nice word, and about time the rugby thread had a word befitting the intelligence of the game - is for big plays. It always bothered me about him when he played #12 before he went to England. He somehow never seemed to fit comfortably into the chain. The bottom line is that the AB #10 bucket is just about empty.

The Bok "justice" thing was inappropriate. On the other hand, having the match still on tape, I had another look at Bakkies' indiscretion yesterday. I agree with the Lions management who certainly weren't being polite or blowing smoke. The citing and suspension were both harsh. It was the same sort of clearing out that you see a dozen times in any match. It differed vastly from Bakkies' notorious shoulder charges, of which I've been highly critical. He concussed Stirling Mortlock on one occasion. On this occasion, he went in chest-on with his right arm extended to wrap up the Welshman. He certainly didn't target the Welshman's arm. The Taff was unlucky. Bakkies paid a price for his reputation. Tough luck, some might say, but how many other identical clear-outs will be cited? Zilch.

Australia is only a lovely place on a superficial level. Scratch the surface and the ugliness you talk about can be found at very many levels. I know. I lived there for too long.

[Havak]

And now you live in a country that could not be more different.

Are you sure you are watching the right clear out?

And I wouldn't believe a word Gatland says if I were you.

The IRB have used the very word 'disrepute' in reference to the silly armband protest.

Nice to see some AB buckets empty - wouldn't want to think things were too 'peachy' for them.