AHL- Apolyton Hockey League 08/09: Preseason

[snoopy369]

It's just a way of apportioning the players, that allows a more complex (or more simple) selection strategy, and allows managers a more fair shot at every player. It also functions on an 'economic' basis in the sense that players are given to the person who 'wants' them most - ie, their fair market value - as compared to the draft, which ends up very inefficient because you select players based on when you think they will be taken in the future.

[snoopy369]

Originally posted by Asher


I don't need to do a "mock auction" to wrap my head around the concept of auctioning for hockey players?

Given that timing is already an issue for most people, you are proposing a longer and more complicated player selection process. Not to mention the serious philosophical qualms I have with it.

I mean to see how much you enjoy it Unless you're unwilling to admit you might enjoy something you've never tried before. I think you aren't fully seeing the implications of how interesting the auction can be ...

It is, like I said, the original way fantasy sports worked... the draft is a later phenomenon, and a less interesting one.

It's not so much longer that I think it would be a big deal ... two hours and a half instead of one hour and a half?

[mrboo123]

Originally posted by snoopy369

By the way, auction or draft, ESPN may be the best place to do this anyway ...

Look at their categories:

I second that. Be nice to have a more balanced team than just pure offense.

[snoopy369]

Those are the available categories in a custom league, by the way, in case I didn't make that clear. Not the categories I suggest

[Flubber]

Snoopy

While I am intrigued by your idea, I would like to stick to a draft style for this one-- I do not find that drafting position hurts THAT much-- While there may be some obvious early picks they do not exceed everyone else by so very very much that the snaking nature of the draft does not compensate for it a fair bit . If someone really felt that early draft position in the first round was key, I guess they could propose addiional rounds with the draft order reversed or something to give additional compensation to those stuck with a late pick.


That aside, I would also be open to trying an auction style draft sometime-- I don't see how the fact that currency is irrelevant later makes any difference-- it matters at the outset-- If I can pick up any undrafted guys later without bids that doesn't change the fact that bidding was key to getting the top players-- I have seen those drafts before and its always the case that someone will bid way high for some top players

[Flubber]

Originally posted by snoopy369
It's just a way of apportioning the players, that allows a more complex (or more simple) selection strategy, and allows managers a more fair shot at every player. It also functions on an 'economic' basis in the sense that players are given to the person who 'wants' them most - ie, their fair market value - as compared to the draft, which ends up very inefficient because you select players based on when you think they will be taken in the future.

I'll give you that the auction is absolutely more fair-- Obviously everyone has exactly the same shot at getting any given player subject ONLY to their own actions (prior spending)-- I actually find it intriguing. But for whatever reason I think I would like to have this one be simple draft

[Asher]

Originally posted by mrboo123


I second that. Be nice to have a more balanced team than just pure offense.

I don't even know what this means.

What stat does ESPN have that Yahoo doesn't have?

[Asher]

Originally posted by Flubber
Snoopy

While I am intrigued by your idea, I would like to stick to a draft style for this one-- I do not find that drafting position hurts THAT much-- While there may be some obvious early picks they do not exceed everyone else by so very very much that the snaking nature of the draft does not compensate for it a fair bit . If someone really felt that early draft position in the first round was key, I guess they could propose addiional rounds with the draft order reversed or something to give additional compensation to those stuck with a late pick.

I prefer late picks to early.

[snoopy369]

Auction is more fun, and more fair. It's more fun for leagues like this (less serious ones) because you can guarantee your favorite players, or your 'sleeper' (subject to someone else having the same favorite/sleeper); that often keeps lesser skilled players more interested, if their team more accurately reflects their personal tastes.

Draft orders matter a lot more than you think, a few years ago I saw a study done that the #3 position was the optimal in a 12 team MLB draft by a significant fraction (there were, at the time, 3 or 4 top players, I think, so picks 1-3 were roughly equal in first player quality, but pick 22 was better than 23 or 24).

Either way, I'd love to hear a few others chime in ... and I'm still very much interested in even a mock auction for anyone who is interested (with ESPN randomly giving us the rest of 10 players); designate the time (weeknight or weekend evening) and I'll be there Even if we don't use it for the actual league, the auction itself can be quite fun.

Also, what are thoughts on using ESPN instead of Yahoo, unless Yahoo has significantly improved categories over last year?

[snoopy369]

Originally posted by Asher

I don't even know what this means.

What stat does ESPN have that Yahoo doesn't have?

Hits, among others. Look up a few posts

[Asher]

Originally posted by snoopy369


I mean to see how much you enjoy it Unless you're unwilling to admit you might enjoy something you've never tried before. I think you aren't fully seeing the implications of how interesting the auction can be ...

It is, like I said, the original way fantasy sports worked... the draft is a later phenomenon, and a less interesting one.

It's not so much longer that I think it would be a big deal ... two hours and a half instead of one hour and a half?

The problem with fantasy sports auctions is you've got retards bidding $100 for Crosby and then $1 for someone who gets 10 less points than Crosby.

It's just something I find ridiculous. 90% of the selections end up being $1 bids, what's the point?

[Asher]

Originally posted by snoopy369


Hits, among others. Look up a few posts

As someone who has played in a league where hits are a component for years...

you don't want Hits to be a category. It's wildly inconsistent. What one official at one arena deems a hit is not what another deems a hit.

I've seen games where Phaneuf hits at least a dozen people and ends up with 1 "hit" in the NHL stat book...

[snoopy369]

They aren't $1 bids in a competent auction... and we aren't a bunch of retards here There is always a significant variation in 'expected value:actual value:bid value' of course, but that's where you make your value picks...

Usually only the bench players are $1 bids for the average player, and while it is an acceptable strategy to go high-dollar/low-dollar (and in fact I've won with that strategy before), it's a difficult one (as you have to accurately predict the high-dollar, AND have some good low-dollar sleepers) and usually most players don't do it (well, if more than one does it, they're both screwed anyway).

[snoopy369]

Originally posted by Asher


As someone who has played in a league where hits are a component for years...

you don't want Hits to be a category. It's wildly inconsistent. What one official at one arena deems a hit is not what another deems a hit.

I've seen games where Phaneuf hits at least a dozen people and ends up with 1 "hit" in the NHL stat book...

You don't have a very long memory, do you?? We discussed having hits as a category a few pages ago... and most of the folks in the discussion liked the idea.

[Asher]

Originally posted by snoopy369
Auction is more fun, and more fair. It's more fun for leagues like this (less serious ones) because you can guarantee your favorite players, or your 'sleeper' (subject to someone else having the same favorite/sleeper); that often keeps lesser skilled players more interested, if their team more accurately reflects their personal tastes.

Draft orders matter a lot more than you think, a few years ago I saw a study done that the #3 position was the optimal in a 12 team MLB draft by a significant fraction (there were, at the time, 3 or 4 top players, I think, so picks 1-3 were roughly equal in first player quality, but pick 22 was better than 23 or 24).

Either way, I'd love to hear a few others chime in ... and I'm still very much interested in even a mock auction for anyone who is interested (with ESPN randomly giving us the rest of 10 players); designate the time (weeknight or weekend evening) and I'll be there Even if we don't use it for the actual league, the auction itself can be quite fun.

Also, what are thoughts on using ESPN instead of Yahoo, unless Yahoo has significantly improved categories over last year?

The reason Yahoo's categories are more limited is they're more reliable stats. There's a ton of stats some other sites use (takeaways, hits, giveaways (negatively valued), etc but they're so subjective that they're not consistently reliable. It becomes a bunch of random by-chance categories.

For instance, the scorekeeper in LA last year considered any single touch to be a "hit". That's primarily why Brown was #1 by a good margin in hits, which "surprises" many people...not because they don't know who he is, but because he doesn't hit more often than other players. It just gets recorded as such by LA's stat keeper.