MLB - 2008 Season

[Ming]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
He may look like his loafing, but if he realizes he won't be getting to a ball and thus is playing the carom, that's a smart move.

If it looked like he was playing the carom, I might agree with you. But he seems to be in never never land... trying just hard enough to come up short, and not looking like he is planning anything else.

And when you add on top of that things like getting picked off base, it makes you look at his fielding lapses in a similar vain.

The guy is being paid big bucks... being hurt is one thing, but not trying your hardest or not paying attention is simply a disgrace.

[Arrian]

But if the MANAGER and doctors are telling him to take it easy then it even makes less sense for the MANAGER not to take that into consideration when thinking about a defensive replacement or a pinch runner in late game situations

Absolutely. If the Cubs have a good defensive LFer they can use as a defensive replacement (and PRer), they should use him.

Anyway... Sori's not perfect. The thing that used to drive me nuts was the "it's a HR! Oh, oops, now it's a single!" routine. You know, the ball off the wall that's a clear double, but isn't, because Sori didn't run 'cause he had to style at the plate 'cause he thought he'd hit it out.

-Arrian

[Imran Siddiqui]

But if the MANAGER and doctors are telling him to take it easy then it even makes less sense for the MANAGER not to take that into consideration when thinking about a defensive replacement or a pinch runner in late game situations

I've shown the range factor of the potential defensive replacements... quite frankly, they are horrible. The manager may believe that a running at 3/4 speed Soriano is a better defensive bet (even if just because of his arm) than DeRosa or Johnson.

[Imran Siddiqui]

The guy is being paid big bucks... being hurt is one thing, but not trying your hardest or not paying attention is simply a disgrace.

Meh... he's being paid big bucks not for his defense. Other fanbases have accepted or even embraced a great hitting star for loafing a bit in the defensive side of the game (ie, "Manny being Manny"). Now, Soriano may be not running at full speed because he's been instructed to, but let's be honest, his big contract and value was due to his bat.

[Ming]

Which is why it pisses me off when he turns a double into a single because he is too busy marveling at the flight of the ball instead of running

[Imran Siddiqui]

Welcome to baseball in 2008

[rah]

After the lost in the sun trick, I loved the cubs announcer, Brenly's line. "Soriano can't be called a "superstar" because of his shaky defense and joked that if you threw a dart into the Cubs' dugout, anyone you hit could play left field better than Soriano."

While I laughed, I did wonder on who that dart could hit.

[-Jrabbit]

Show me where I backtracked. Hasn't happened yet. Not gonna.

Imran, YOU are the one who ASSUMED I was referring to his long-term history in my statements. Read the actual posts.

Jeez.

[rah]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
Meh... he's being paid big bucks not for his defense. Other fanbases have accepted or even embraced a great hitting star for loafing a bit in the defensive side of the game (ie, "Manny being Manny").

Sorry, I can accept lack of defense or base running if it's due to lack of skill. But that is not the case here and winking and say that accepted is really not right in my book. For that much money, he can give it 100% effort and pay attention. Most working people have to. Just because he makes thousands of times more than me shouldn't exempt him from the basics. Geeze.

[Arrian]

Sori watching a ball he thinks is gone and costing his team a base = bad.

Sori not running flat out b/c he's nursing a calf injury (and probably being under orders to take it easy) =! bad.

Those are two very different things.

Sori losing a ball in the sun = ... very little. It's one play. Does he do this a lot? I've seen it happen to lots of OFers... good and bad defenders alike.

-Arrian

[Imran Siddiqui]

Originally posted by -Jrabbit
Show me where I backtracked. Hasn't happened yet. Not gonna.

Imran, YOU are the one who ASSUMED I was referring to his long-term history in my statements. Read the actual posts.

Jeez.

Please. It's very clear. You called him a butcher and said he's bad, but he has had great speed in the past to make up for mistakes and because of injuries that's gone now. You had to backtrack and admit, ok, maybe he wasn't a butcher in the past, but he is now (which I still find fault in).

[q=rah]Sorry, I can accept lack of defense or base running if it's due to lack of skill. But that is not the case here and winking and say that accepted is really not right in my book. For that much money, he can give it 100% effort and pay attention. Most working people have to. Just because he makes thousands of times more than me shouldn't exempt him from the basics. Geeze.[/q]

That's a bad argument. "For that much money he can give 100% effort" never appealed to me. If you know how certain players are, then they are being paid for what they are and that includes the normal amount of effort they put in. It doesn't matter how many zeros are in their check.

Barry Bonds was paid a ton, even though he stood and watched balls... which sometimes cost him... but that didn't matter because he more than made up for it.

If Soriano is watching balls, that's part of the calculus made when offering him a deal. Just like in Boston it is "Manny being Manny" and that is taken into account in their dealings with him.

[Ming]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
If Soriano is watching balls, that's part of the calculus made when offering him a deal. Just like in Boston it is "Manny being Manny" and that is taken into account in their dealings with him.

Sure, you should consider that when offering him a deal.
But that's still no excuse for not playing hard. It's just being frickin lazy. Just because "it happens" doesn't make it right or excuse it. If he doesn't want to give 100%, it's our right to point it out and give him grief for it

And looking at balls while standing at home plate, and getting picked off base because you aren't paying attention sure hurt his standing as an offensive oriented player

[Imran Siddiqui]

Not that much.

[-Jrabbit]

I know you're a punkass lawyer and all, but don't put words in my mouth. I posted a simple observation and you, unbidden, launched into a whole sabermetric defense based on Soriano's career OF stats. I admit it was a mistake to respond to your overreaction.

Now you're defending hot-dogging, lack of effort and inattentive play as "how it is" today.

Do you even like baseball?

[SlowwHand]

Fantasy, but probably pretty accurate..

http://www.tsn.ca/fantasy_news/feature/?fid=9221