MLB - 2008 Season

[Imran Siddiqui]

On Sept. 12, 2006, as the Florida Marlins’ manager, Girardi let the rookie Josh Johnson stay in after an 82-minute rain delay. The next season, Johnson needed reconstructive elbow surgery, and Florida owner Jeffrey Loria implied that Girardi was to blame.

Things like this (and it has happened on more than one occasion) are why young pitchers are usually told to pack it in after a rain delay of some significant time. You can't really keep as loose as you would if you were actually pitching in a game.

[snoopy369]

Again - I have no problem with that over a few hour delay. 53 minutes is barely more than one inning sitting aside (and with the Yankees i'm sure he'll have more than one long inning of that length to wait through). Girardi is just scared he'll screw up, and that means he makes stupid decisions like that.

[-Jrabbit]

53 min = "barely more than one inning"???? LOL How many 8-hour games have you seen, snoop?

Based on an average 3-hr game, 53 minues is about 2.5 innings.

[snoopy369]

3 hours is only the average when Mark Buerhle is pitching

I consider about 30 minutes per inning (4.5 hours total) to be the average. 53 minutes is less than 2 innings by that mark.

Either way, the guy pitches 7 innings on average (when he's pitching well), right? So, 2 or even 3 innings on top of the 2 he pitched... should still have another 2 in him.

[-Jrabbit]

You have a really skewed perception of the length of MLB games, snoop.

2001 -- avg. 2:52
2003 -- avg. 2:46
2004 -- avg. 2:47

When Beuhrle pitches, it's closer to 2 hours.

Even at 3 hours, that would be only 20 minutes per inning.

[snoopy369]

Hmm, i guess I watch slow games

Anyway, 20 minutes per inning is still < 3 innings, so as I said above, add 3 innings of superlight work to his total and you get 5 innings - well below what he'd work in a normal game.

[Imran Siddiqui]

The heavy to superlight back to heavy is something that really messes with pitchers' arms. Going from 100 to 50 back to 100 tends to have bad effects.

Oh, and Loria isn't an ass, really. Girardi was really far up there on Pitcher Abuse Points when he managed the Marlins and a lot of people blame the injuries to the young pitchers they had on him.

[snoopy369]

Girardi may or may not have abused his pitchers, but Loria is still an ass

I consider 'superlight' not 50mph but more like
Fastball, changeup, changeup, changeup, Fastball, changeup, changeup, changeup, maybe one more set, and a single one of each other type of pitch he throws; and not 100 on the fastballs, but on the lower end of his normal fastball range (usually 85-90).

Basically, the amount of work a simple inning would be (a 3-up-3-down-no-long-ABs inning).

[Arrian]

Originally posted by snoopy369
Again - I have no problem with that over a few hour delay. 53 minutes is barely more than one inning sitting aside (and with the Yankees i'm sure he'll have more than one long inning of that length to wait through). Girardi is just scared he'll screw up, and that means he makes stupid decisions like that.

First off, the game was delayed in the middle of the 3rd. Hughes pitched the bottom of the 2nd, then sat while the Yanks battled in the top of the third (dunno how long it was, but the Yankees scored 3 runs that inning) and then sat another 53 minutes during the rain delay.

As Imran pointed out, there may have been consequences to sending a young pitcher back out, and Girardi himself was involved. Personally, I think Johnson's useage patterns pre-Girardi were at least partly to blame as well, but I will forever risk no hurt to the Hughes.

Well, not forever. But when he's in his early twenties (red zone for pitcher injury), I'm perfectly ok with being extra cautious.

-Arrian

[Arrian]

Regarding that Times article...

It seemed to be poor planning by the Yankees, who have not carried a traditional long reliever all season. They have needed one repeatedly, but instead have pushed the job on Ohlendorf, who pitched in a short-relief role in spring training.

1. Ohlendorf was a starter in the minors, and is capable of 2-3 innings stints. He just sucked last night.

2. The 'pen was short last night because Bruney may have torn two tendons in his foot, so he was unavailable.

3. The "long reliever" spot under Torre was just a "****ty pitcher you can send out to take his beating" spot. Feh. They could call up Darrell Rasner to be a long man/spot starter. And perhaps they will.

-Arrian

[-Jrabbit]

The Bruney injury was noted in the full article.

Regardless, outside Joba and Mariano Forever, the Yanks' pen looks pretty vulnerable again this year.

[Arrian]

Yessir, 'tis a weakness. The hope is that one or two of the guys they throw against the wall stick. It's possible none do.

-Arrian

[-Jrabbit]

Well, they can always buy a couple if it isn't working out...

[snoopy369]

The yankees are finding out what a few other teams (among them the White Sox) found out not so long ago... relievers don't grow on trees

That's why I don't object to the Sox spending on some big guys (Dotel, Linebrink) who could be huge flops. It's worth the expense just on the off chance they work out...

[-Jrabbit]

I think the smart approach is to retool the middle and long relief staff every year. Closers and set-up guys are generally guys with live arms and good stuff (at least one "plus" out pitch).

Middle and long relievers are much less predictable, and it seems to be pretty unusual to see those guys follow one good season with another. Seems like the insightful approach would be to sell high with those guys while rebuilding with high-upside youth and vets on the comeback trail.

My 2 cents.