Rugby - New Year, New Coaches, New Laws

[Havak]

Nowhere for now I suspect.

It would be easy to say "the clubs must release them" but the reality is if that was imposed it would be far rarer for European clubs to sign Argentinians - and where then would they ply their trade?

[LDiCesare]

On the other hand, most of them can certainly negotiate.
Their props, hookers, fly half, are among the very best in the world, they can certainly put it in their contract that they must be released for 3 matches a year with their national team, else they'd look elsewhere.
The rest of the team is less likely to be able to negotiate, though.

[finbar]

I should have added that it remains conjecture that the clubs won't release the players. I don't think they've yet been approached. It's still early days on the whole scheme. History, though, suggests there would be a problem.

The clause in the contract might be a goer in the future but it's too late for the current contracts, I'd've thought.

The sorry fact is, apparently, that Argie rugby is a bigger shambles than ever at home. It was noted that the players still haven't been paid for the World Cup. Getting the house in order might be a first step to solving other problems down the track.

[Havak]

If the proposed games are not played on a currently sanctioned IRB date (and if it falls on fallow dates in the tri-nations they won't be so sanctioned) then I suspect neither French, Irish or English sides will release players.

However LdiC is quite right - only the best of the best will be able to negotiate clauses in future anyway. Those who are good (but not outstanding) may then struggle to find clubs.

There is an irony don't you think in the fact that a closed shop (SANZAR) where these guys cannot ply their trade is offering the Pumas fixtures that would require the 'open shops' of the NH to release players in the middle of their domestic season.

I'd offer a different solution - instead of England touring NZ in June why don't the Pumas do so? The England tour is pointless as Ashton will take this wooden spoon squad and skipper anyway - give the Pumas these games instead.

[finbar]

What irony? The Bok S14 teams play imports, always have. M'sieur Michalak is debuting for the Sharks this weekend. And watch out within the next 12 months for the Australian S14 teams to be allowed at least one import.

The Pumas taking over the England tour of NZ is too sensible an idea ever to come to fruition.

[Havak]

I'm sure the Boks keep reviewing the open nature of their franchises so it's a fragile thing? I didn't however know the Aussies were opening theirs.

Front rowers only need apply?

NZ closed their franchises to outsiders some years back? Then again Ear-biter Yates was probably the most notable UK name that played in NZ in the Profesisonal era (and noteable far more for his ear biting than his rugby).

Strangely with his misdeed well in the past and the furore long gone Yates now plays for Andydogs new club. Which is why the opposing prop always wears a scrum cap presumably.

[finbar]

The Boks seem never to have had a problem with imports. Harking back to that clapped-out Scot who picked up some superannuation years ago. There were even a couple of Australians over there playing S14 last season.

The Kiwis have a half-open, half-closed door on the matter. Pacific Islanders can play S14 even though ineligible for the All Blacks. There have also been a few Australians - Steve Devine, for one - who have been allowed in without any residential qualifications. They seem to approach it on a case-by-case basis.

The restrictive rules will change in Australia basically because John O'Neill (and now Robbie Deans) want them to. It has finally hit home that Australia just doesn't have the depth of local talent to support four S14 teams. I was telling them that a couple of years ago. Pity they don't read our threads.

The only real question is in the detail - they would want the imports to be of sufficient quality to lift the standard (as well as, hopefully, educate the players around them), without taking spots from potential Wallabies. It's a minefield. They talk about players like BOD. He, apparently, has expressed interest. He's the quality they would need but I don't know of many others who would follow.

[Havak]

Just a quick reply to that - I don't think BOD has looked the same since a certain double dump tackle in 2005 - he is a shadow of the man who lit up Brisbane in 2001. It appeares he is thinking of super annuation/lifestlye changes of his own?

Gregor Townsend - ah yes, Bok rugby really found him out didnt it?

[Havak]

For me the biggest problem with Ashton at the moment is that he is not learning from experience.

England team: Balshaw (Gloucester); Sackey (Wasps), Noon (Newcastle), Flood (Newcastle), Vainikolo (Gloucester); Wilkinson (Newcastle), Wigglesworth (Sale); Sheridan (Sale Sharks), Regan (Bristol), Vickery (Wasps, capt), Shaw (Wasps), Borthwick (Bath), Haskell (Wasps), Lipman (Bath), Easter (Harlequins).

Replacements: Mears (Bath), Stevens (Bath), Kay (Leicester), Croft (Leicester), Hodgson (London Irish), Cipriani (Wasps), Tait (Newcastle).

The only positives here are the long overdue chance for Croft to get a cap and the call up of the Exiles scrum half (Hodgson).

Apart from that he will persist with Regan, Vickery, Borthwick, an unfit Easter, Noon, Sackey and Balshaw.

Ashton deserves everything that happens next weekend - it somehow does not seem fair that England fans have to suffer alongside him though?

[finbar]

I was going to note that BOD isn't the player he was. The slashing breaks aren't there anymore. I think he's just lot the top end of his speed. Happens as you get older. As you'll discover one day.

Yes, depressing same old same old from the coach. I've seen Wigglesworth only a couple of times in club games and he seemed tidy and efficient rather than a bit of a devil. Which is what they need. For the rest, it depends on which oppo turns up. I look forward with certainty, though, to the England back three grasping at thin air as their counterparts burn them.

[LDiCesare]

Until you read France selection, you can believe England is doomed (with no Leicester player in the starting 15).
But Elissalde hurt himself, and the result is we'll have the young Morgan Parra starting at scrum half. I didn't see him much, but I didn't like what I saw. He looked so slow... What with Trinh Duc at fly half and a young Picamoles in the back row, we may have lots of problems linking forwards and backs. Particularly getting the ball quickly out of rucks to launch attacks.
I just hope Wilko will kick the ball at Clerc and Heymans, but I'm afraid he's not that dumb.

[finbar]

He has been recently. Fingers crossed he keeps it up.

And at least France are picking youth instead of has-beens and never-weres.

[Havak]

I’m almost as fast (to the bar) as I ever was Finbar.

I was actually a little unfair on Wigglesworth in my appraisal of the positives – he deserves his chance too. But as you say he is no devil – and you are right about our back three too.

Ashton was finally quoted yesterday as saying significant changes will occur if the players fail to ‘improve the performance significantly towards what I was looking for in this campaign’. That would be two games too late – but at least it seems realisation is finally dawning.

(with no Leicester player in the starting 15).

Isn’t this damning – given how many Englishmen there are eligible in the Champions senior squad. How on earth can any England coach defend not starting any of them?

I just hope Wilko will kick the ball at Clerc and Heymans, but I'm afraid he's not that dumb.

Well I disagree with Finbar – I don’t think Wilko is that dumb – but he isn’t in good form either. England HAVE been kicking ball away to the opposition back three and failing to change that when it patently didn’t work.

Any you know losing to France wouldn’t be that bad as:

a) I’d much rather they won the tournament than the Taffs

b)Having said he would do so Ashton will be forced to drop large numbers of the West Country Wasps finally.

[finbar]

I'll rephrase. Wilkinson has been playing dumb rugby recently. The end result is the same. He will kick straight down the throats of the French back three. QED.

Is Harry Ellis still injured? It's been a hell of a long time. What's wrong with him?

[Havak]

He ruptured the Anterior Cruciate Ligament in one of his knees.

He is about ready to come back, and should feature for the Development side within the next fortnight. The big question is what will the blown ACL have done to his pace? It normally changes muscle definition on the affected leg considerably?

Harry is a Wigston lad by the way - so a very genuine Leicestershire Tiger indeed.

In a few years I think Ben Youngs will be in with a good shout for England call up - he has a bit more of the mongrel about him than Wigglesworth or Hodgson for me.