NFL -- Are You Ready For Some Football? -- Week 10

[SlowwHand]

At the 2 minute warning, Anthony Thomas of the Bills has 11 rushes. That might be appropriate.

[Jaguar]

A few weeks ago I said the Lions weren't remotely close to being a legit 6-2 team. Now they're 6-4, and they're not a legit 6-4 team either.

After they play the Packers next week, they'll be 6-5. And they'll still probably be worse than their record.

[SlowwHand]

Losing to the Packers isn't uncommon.

[Donegeal]

Why in the hell is the New England defense running up the score like that? Any decent player would have just not recovered the fumble!

[Imran Siddiqui]

And plenty of teams go for it on 4th down in a game that you have solidly in hand...

[-Jrabbit]

Bad choice of WRs cost me a FF win. Santana Moss and Bernard Berrian scored 28 points more than Hines Ward and Reggie Brown, and I'm down by 20...

[Koyaanisqatsi]

Jesus H. Christ. Are you really numb enough that you still don't realize that's how they're trying to not score, or are you just looking for anything to ***** about? Do I get to ***** that the Bills were still playing full speed when down 56-10 with under 30 seconds left, resulting in Jarvis Green limping off with an injury sustained when the game was well out of reach? If there's no point in the Pats playing, there's no point in the Bills playing either, right? Or do you think Buffalo didn't get the 'game over' message when they were giving up 10 yards a carry to Kyle Eckel and Heath Evans in the third quarter?

Get over it.

[snoopy369]

Up by 40 going for it on 4th down: Running up the score
Down by 40 still trying hard: Trying for pride

I think anyone with half a brain understands this ...

[Imran Siddiqui]

Why exactly is Jarvis Green in a game with a 46 point lead? And if you can't see the difference between a team down 46 still playing hard and the team up 46 points still playing hard, then you are beyond help.

It's like not understanding why blacks are allowed affirmative action support while whites aren't.

[Koyaanisqatsi]

Up by 40 going for it on 4th down: Trying not to score.

Let's try it this way, for the slower members of the audience. What is the normal behavior when you're within chip shot field goal range on 4th down? You know, when the game is rolling along in the 2nd quarter, lots of time left, nobody's really taken control yet? Most teams, trying to get as many points as they can, will kick a field goal, yes? So it would be odd to, say, repeatedly go for it on 4th down. Strange behavior, perhaps? What do you suppose might cause such an unusual choice? Is it possible that a team might decide to change their behavior when they change their goals? Perhaps when the goal is not to score, when they don't really care whether or not they put up points, they just give the other team the opportunity to stop them?

And I don't really care about the Bills still going until the end...of course they will. I just think there's an argument to be made that the game isn't over until both teams agree it is, and if the Bills don't want it to be over, why should the Pats stop playing (even though they did at the half)?

And Jarvis Green was in the game because somebody had to be. He is nominally a backup, you know, and they do have to put 11 guys out there right up until the end.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Did they end up scoring a TD on that drive? If you really think Beli was trying not to score when he was going for it on 4th down, then I have a bridge to sell you in Arizona.

And perhaps the Bills want to keep playing, so they can salvage some pride and have something to build on for next week after getting pummled. Which, of course, the Patriots don't really have an interest in, since they have the whole game to build on. Like I said, two completely different situations. May I add that the argument "The Bills are still playing hard" is probably one of the worst I've ever heard in defense of something.

I thought Green was still starting. Didn't realize he's gone back to being a backup.

[snoopy369]

Up by 40, you go for the field goal. Going for it on fourth is ALWAYS running up the score in my opinion, 4th and goal on the 1 or 4th and 20 on your own 20. Stupid perhaps in the latter case But still blatant. A lot of the other things Belichek does can be seen as just playing smart, but ... going for it on 4th is always wrong when you're up by an uncatchable margin, in my opinion.

Let me clarify my stance: I think the 11 on the field should always play as hard as they can. The only people I fault in any way for running up the score is the person who calls the plays, and the person who determines who is in the game; and ultimately the Coach is responsible for both. When you're up by an uncatchable margin, you pull out your starters (just common sense) and you call time consuming plays (running or short high percentage passes), and don't do anything 'risky' or otherwise unconventional. It's not just 'polite'; it's smart, also - if you're calling lots of runs and short passes, you eat up the clock and reduce the miniscule chances for a comeback; and you take less risks for injury. Pretty much every other team does this ... the Colts for example, or the Packers the last two games. Sure the Pack scored a lot of points yesterday and last week, but after the game was decided they did it on 3 yard passes and runs. (There were still some questions as to why Favre was in there the last set of downs, by me included, but overall they took it quite slowly and methodically - and they weren't up by 40, either).

The fact that Belichek in the past has not done this (didn't see this game so other than this thread don't know) tells me he is trying to blow people out. I just hope it comes back to hit him in the face ...

[Donegeal]

Kicking a field goal in the NFL is almost garunteed points (with the exception of "Mr.Clutch" ). Going for it on fourth down is less than 50% (I believe). Everytime NE goes for it of 4th down, they aren't trying to make sure they score a TD, they are just trying to give the other team an oppertunity, that is statistically in their favor, to stop them.

Yes NE scored a TD on that drive. Also, on that drive, Buffalo had two oppertunities to hold them for 0 points. They failed both times.

[snoopy369]

It's not about the points; it's about the purpose of going for it. Why go for it on fourth down? I have no problem if a team scores 30 more points while playing reasonably; if (backup RB) gets a hole and runs for a 60 yard TD i've got no problem with that. Kicking a FG is the 'smart' thing points wise to do, and is the correct thing to do; going for it on 4th is just saying to the other team "haha, you can't even stop us on 4th down".

They might as well kick an onside kick after the TD, just as bad IMO...

[Koyaanisqatsi]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
Did they end up scoring a TD on that drive? If you really think Beli was trying not to score when he was going for it on 4th down, then I have a bridge to sell you in Arizona.

I think he was not trying to score, as opposed to trying to not score, which is what you seem to want from him. If he was trying to score as much as possible, why the change in strategy from when he (and everybody else in the league) are trying to score as much as possible by kicking field goals?

And perhaps the Bills want to keep playing, so they can salvage some pride and have something to build on for next week after getting pummled. Which, of course, the Patriots don't really have an interest in, since they have the whole game to build on. Like I said, two completely different situations. May I add that the argument "The Bills are still playing hard" is probably one of the worst I've ever heard in defense of something.

How much pride do you get from stopping Cassel and Eckel again? And I think the NE backups have as much interest as the Buffalo starters, it's not like they participated in the first half pasting. For that matter, you can make the same argument for the starters going for it on 4th down...they may have to do it at some point when it really matters, but it doesn't seem they're going to get the opportunity very often if everybody insists they kick whenever they're ahead...