Rugby World Cup: And the Winner is...

[finbar]

I hereby nominate you as Treasurer of said fund. And as the assassin. It's a job for a hooker.

[Havak]

I think Croft's time has arrived Finbar.

Agree about Catt.

Easter will find himself under considerable pressure from Ward-Smith, Crane and Haskell. Any of these with Rees and Croft either side is an interesting option with great potential.

One area of concern for me is the coal face. I would never have believed this four years ago but there are not too many young props coming through the Professional ranks right now.

[finbar]

So what's Leicester doing with an Italian one? Not, of course, that I'm picking on Leicester. Perish the thought. How many foreign props are there propping up club front rows?

[Havak]

Far too many. I actually need to do a lot of homework to answer that any better.

When England are picking Freshwater and Yates it speaks volumes. Even the Saxons were picking the old crufter Hatley (and for me the Saxons exist to develop youth).

You are right to pick on Tigers. One Italian, one Argentinian and one Italian-Argentinian are on our books. This a club that between 1988 and 2002 fielded an ABC (123 for you chaps) club of mainly English players (and UK players when they were not English).

We do of course have old Julian White - there are also two young lads (Dan Cole and Matt Parr) but they are new to the senior squad this year and I have seen little of them. There's also a young Irish lad that likewise I've not seen.

Check out the Tigers web site for more info - including the heart rending sight of Owen Finnegan in a Tigers shirt and a Kiwi flanker with a beard even more ridiculous than George Chuter's!

[Caligastia]

As usual I'm late to comment...

I found the final to be quite riveting until the Boks hit the 15 point mark. It was all downhill from there as England appeared to lose direction entirely. There's nothing wrong with a tryless game, as there are often plenty of other thrilling moments.


The 3rd place match was exciting. I'm happy for the Argies.

[finbar]

So Nose is cheerfully knifing B. Ashton. Presumably ticked off that he spent so much time either on the bench or in the grandstands. Be grateful he selected you in the squad, Nose.

What's very interesting in all this is the increasing references to the "clear the air" meeting after the 36-0 drubbing by the Boks. I first came across reference to the meeting in a Times article a couple of weeks ago. The article put a positive spin on the meeting. Subsequently, we've learned from an unidentified source that, at the meeting, a senior player "told Ashton to pull his finger out". Yesterday, Nose and A. Gomarsall were taking things a step further and claiming player credit for the turnaround.

I don't know whether B. Ashton is the right man for the job in the future but there are clearly agendas at work.

Oh, and I couldn't find the photo of Owen in a Tigers shirt. Maybe they took it down in the interests of good taste.

[Havak]

Always happy to help out



I don't know if Ashton is the right man either but I do know I dislike this sudden disloyalty amongst some players.

I would personally can Daylgo and Gommersall right away. It was probably going to happen anyway but this should seal their fate.

I've been following the BBC blog feedback about "changing of the guard" and it is quite telling. Whilst about 10% of posters have clearly seen some club rugby and know of the Haskells, Ciprianis, Blaze, Croft and Cranes of this world the majority are picking iterations of the RWC training squad or selecting Gloucester wholesale (including the endless pushing of JSD).

Now Glaws are doing superbly in the League - but they also didn't provide any players to England for the RWC. There might be a slight correlation there?

[finbar]

Presumably one or other of them leaked the business about Ashton being told to pull his finger out and the coaching being a "shambles".

Cripes, Owen looks uncomfortable. You should bite him for a loan before he leaves. His family own either nursing homes or private hospitals in Australia, I forget which. Licences to print money. I think he's returning to run the business.

[Havak]

I have no proof of course but that does rather sound like classic Dayglo egotisim?

Owen looks uncomfortable because on the roster page he is directly beneath Mr Croft perhaps?

But thanks for the tip - will see if he can be persuaded into buying a round in the captains bar at the club house.

[kittenOFchaos]

Player power isn't a particularly good way of choosing coaches, look at the removal of Ruddock in Wales.

Where Gomersall probably has a complaint is he had to wait till Perry truely crashed and burned before getting selected as first choice scrum-half. The removal of Perry from the team saw a big turn around in Englands fortunes. Rees and Barkley were also awful against SA and there too, they weren't to see action again in the WC.

I think the "pull your finger out" comment may been in those terms of ditching those guys who had failed and putting others in ahead of them. Farrell also disappeared from the equation once he got his first and possibly last try at international level in Union.

I'd rather see Ashton stay rather than having a new coach and see what he is really made of and hope he has the courage to ditch the old guard and rebuild from scratch, especially in the backline as it did not function as an offensive weapon and so we could never really play catch up rugby.


I found this interesting to watch:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/mediaselector/check/player/sol/newsid_7050000/newsid_7057600?redirect=7057666.stm&news=1&bbram=1&nbram=1&bbwm=1&nbwm=1

Liked Worsley taking the mick out of Dayglo and that he'd reveal all in his new book. Dayglo also has to learn what off the record actually means


ALL that said, if Johnson was in the picture as coach of England, I wouldn't say no

[finbar]

I think the "pull your finger out" comment related to coaching in the context of tactics. There was specific reference to lack of guidance or assessment at the half time break.

Interesting interviews, and the source of a lot of the published comment. Nose obviously has it in for B. Ashton, more than implying that he lacks man management skills.

And, while in Australia, J. O'Neill is saying that rugby has to learn from L***** and make the game more entertaining, Eddie Jones is saying leave the rules alone and, more importantly, that the proposed changes are Australian-centric. Nice one, Eddie.

[Havak]

It’s a nice idea but I fear Martin talks far too much sense to last within the labyrinths of the RFU hierarchy.

I’d also flag that despite my huge respect for the man he does have no coaching experience. I’d like to see him get some club experience (preferably at Tigers) before joining my preferred ticket of Richards-Johnson for England at some point in the future.


Perry is an interesting player – he has been exceptional for Bristol for two years but has never impressed me in an England shirt. I think Finbar put it best – he is such a chunky lad he looks like a forward masquerading as a half back.

Gomersall on the flip side had a great RWC when given the chance but that is certainly the best I have ever seen him play. For an insight into Gomersall I suggest one reads Austin Healeys book (sorry Finbar) as Andy was touted at the next big thing by Jack Rowell but for me he never worked hard enough to convert that potential. It didn’t help that he changed clubs like most people change underwear (Wasps, Bedford, Gloucester, Worcester, Harlequins). I’ve head anecdotal stories that he has a bad attitude in the locker room and the sudden turning on his coach would tend to support that. In any case as soon as Ellis is fit Gomersall returns to obscurity – we should also be pushing younger guys like Richards and Youngs anyway.

Barkley I agree with – it was bizarre that his best game was as stand off and he did look out of his depth at IC. Flood or Allen have to be the option at 12 for the 6N anyway.

Rees is the one where I don’t agree – I think he was unlucky. He has considerable promise but against SA he came up against a back row unit that is pretty damn good. I think he will have learned from it and I am sure he will figure in the 6N.

There are players available to build a young and exciting backline – what we need now is a coach prepared to take a long term view and blood these lads.

I’d like to see Ellis-Geragthy-Varndell-Wilko-Hipkiss-Strettle-Tait in the 6N myself. That’s a threatening back line in every department.

We should look on the Brightside though – the Wallabies best option for replacing their scrum half is also their best option at inside centre. Their lack of depth might finally bite them now George has gone. And whilst Barnes is a talent at fly half we have seen he can be rattled. More importantly of course the Wallabies have to find props that can scrummage and a hooker who can hook.

[finbar]

S. Perry not only looks like a forward, he tries to play like one. That's his biggest problem. He was too often in the middle of a ruck instead of out the back doing his job. O. Barkley wasn't up to it at either #10 or #12. He doesn't seem to be able to move and think at the same time.

B. Barnes was rattled? Stinky old bait, but anyway. In his second match? A Word Cup QF? Against England? Behind a non-existent pack and a creaky #9? Mmmm.

I don't think M. Giteau will move to #9. Apart from a mini-production line of talented young #10s, there's at least one outstanding young #9 in the domestic system. Josh Holmes. Typically, the Waratahs let him slip to the Brumbies where he will replace G. Gregan. He should have gone to France for the experience. Instead, they took S. Cordingley. Waste of time and space.

The tragedy of the tournament, to me, was the injury to Scott Staniforth. Giteau at #9 and Staniforth at #12 was the go. Not that they'd ever have started that way. Sadly.

As for hookers, there's at least one very talented young one in the system. Tatafu Polota-Nau, Waratahs. He has size, mobility, very good hands. Needs to work on his throwing. He was injured so wasn't considered for France. Not that they'd have picked him anyway. It was a very conservative squad.

Speaking of drunken hookers, I hope the Gloucester chaps are practising their drinking for J. Paul's arrival.

As for props ...

[Havak]

Having lived in Gloucester in the early nineties I can assure you that little practice is needed - Mr Paul should fit right in.

Sometimes the stinkiest of bait lets you reel in even the finest of fish.

[finbar]

Doesn't hurt to give the old line a bit of a tug now and then. To keep the angler amused.