Rugby World Cup: And the Winner is...

[Havak]

I should know by now that when I attempt to take you on in a game of wit I am coming to the party comparatively unarmed.

[LDiCesare]

work on (...) throwing.

Please be polite. Some hookers are readinf you.

[finbar]

I didn't say you ! My sources tell me your throwing is impeccable.

Now what about the new coach? Is S. Blanco right? Have they rushed the appointment?

I should now by now that when I attempt to take you on in a game of wit I am coming to the party comparatively unarmed

For an injury-ravaged old cauliflower-eared prop, you front up pretty well.

[Joe Kick Ass]

My understanding of the Ashton situation is that it was less of a "pull your finger out" and more of a "f*ck off"; Ashton apparently with very little involvement in the run up to the SF at least (captain/coach Catt?). Sounds not too unfamiliar to certain events in Wales, but with a somewhat different outcome?

Still, be very surprising if he stays on after that...
Jake White wants the England job, no? Is that happening?

Also, @ Havak, I checked the BBC website today to see who was covering the Blues match this weekend, and was informed that at 7pm BBC2, "English champions Sale Sharks are the visitors to the Arms Park".



Here's what Tom Shanklin had to say to the Blues website ahead of the match...

"I’m looking forward to the festive season and writing my letter to Father Christmas asking for a R2D2 from Star Wars. It’s a scale version with projector in its eye which projects DVD’s onto the walls. It has an ipod dock, DVD player and the remote control is the Millennium Falcon. Basically you use it as a hi-fi system stroke projector. It’s a bit expensive so I’ll have to make sure I’m a good boy."

[Joe Kick Ass]

And what's this about wanting to change the 22/kicking laws?

Agreeing with stellenbosch? wtf?

[Havak]

Search for “rewriting rugby’s laws” on BBC Sport to find all you need to know about the Stellenbosch folly.

As for Sale good old beeb - missing out the word 'former' makes a huge difference doesn't it?

I suppose the easy excuse with Mr Shanklins evidently shaky sanity is that he is clearly an Englishman who chose to play for Wales? I mean his welsh accent is matched only by Chris Horsman and Colin Charvis in my experience.

Now it seems such a shame after Finbar’s kind words about this old crufter to pull out some stinky old bait again but I want to talk about Mr O’Neill. What Finbar probably sees as tongue in cheek from this man once again I can’t help but see as stereotypically poor Aussie sportsmanship. I see he is once again arguing for law changes based on an aspect of the game that cost the Aussies their last match. Whilst I am sure this is mainly grandstanding to the domestic Australian audience (implying “if we had been in the final it would have had loads of trys”) it all seems a bit daft to me.

Surely the man realises you can’t change the laws every time the Wallabies lose? And just because they lose at that?

The plus side of this episode is how clearly Eddie Jones still hates O’Neill – he riposted this one with some wonderfully dismissive comments.

Then again is Mr O’Neill daft enough to look at Alan Jones now he it putting himself forward to replace knuckles? Not Finbar’s favourite person if memory serves?

Some UK based player news for those SH souls who might have missed it:

Matt Burke out for the season with a knee injury suffered in Falcons game last weekend. This is a real shame and a HUGE loss to Falcons.

Stuart Abbot (the Anglo-Bok who was once England’s next big thing in the 12 shirt) has had to retire because of a shoulder injury. He had dropped out of England running due to a series of injuries and his move from Wasps to Quins but it is always sad to see a player have to retire in their 20’s.

Steve ‘Lardy’ Thompson has come out of retirement to play for Brive. Given he retired due to a suffering a bulging vertebrae this is somewhat intriguing. He was under contract to Saints for this season – suffered the injury early this calendar year, had the operation, retired, went to Brive as a scrum coach and suddenly has found he is fit to play again. I suspect Saints lawyers may want to look at this one a bit more closely?

As for the locker room rumours about Ashton there is probably no smoke without fire but I see that Catt, whilst criticising his communication, has backed him to carry on and Catty was supposed to be part of the Dayglo axis that confronted Ashton. On the plus side Dayglo is finished with England – he was a great player for us but in all honesty his towering ego made him cling on at least three years after he should have walked away for good.

[LDiCesare]

The new French coach will be Marc Lievremont. He'll be working with Emile N'Tamack and Didier Retière.
Lièvremont is a former flanker, former coach of the U21 and coached Dax last season (who managed to get promoted from ProD2 whereas Toulon with all the stars it recruited didn't). N'Tamack and Retière coached the U21 who won their cup (talented young players like Beauxis, Jacquet...). Philippe Sella will coach the under 20 or something like that (didn't get why it was U20 and not U21).
Blanco seems a bit unhappy with the way they were named as there has been no concertation with the clubs. Looks like things will be rough again between "La Fédé" and the clubs.

[finbar]

Originally posted by Joe Kick Ass
And what's this about wanting to change the 22/kicking laws?

Agreeing with stellenbosch? wtf?

The proposed change would mean you can't kick the ball out on the full from inside the 22 if the ball has been passed back into the 22 for said purpose. I don't have a problem with the change. It's small beer. The problem is the proposed changes involving being able to pull down mauls and to use hands in the ruck.

Now it seems such a shame after Finbar’s kind words about this old crufter to pull out some stinky old bait again but I want to talk about Mr O’Neill. What Finbar probably sees as tongue in cheek from this man once again I can’t help but see as stereotypically poor Aussie sportsmanship. I see he is once again arguing for law changes based on an aspect of the game that cost the Aussies their last match. Whilst I am sure this is mainly grandstanding to the domestic Australian audience (implying “if we had been in the final it would have had loads of trys”) it all seems a bit daft to me.

Surely the man realises you can’t change the laws every time the Wallabies lose? And just because they lose at that?

The plus side of this episode is how clearly Eddie Jones still hates O’Neill – he riposted this one with some wonderfully dismissive comments.

I dealt with this one the other day. It's not tongue in cheek, it's stupidity disguised as marketing. What really screws J. O'Neill is his invoking of L***** as some sort of benchmark. What's driving the whole Stellenbosch thing is the marketing of rugby with the theory that a faster, more open, apparently more attractive game will attract more people to the game. Whether the changes work in favour of one country or another is almost beside the point.

There's actually no evidence to support their hypothesis and I would argue that interfering with some of the great rugby traditions - like the maul - could just as likely alienate some of the existing rusted-on supporters. I would also be grateful if someone could explain to me how allowing hands in the ruck will aid a more open, attractive game.

Then again is Mr O’Neill daft enough to look at Alan Jones now he it putting himself forward to replace knuckles? Not Finbar’s favourite person if memory serves?

The despicable Alan Jones, self-aggrandising shock jock, peddler of power and influence in everything from politics to rugby, has always had a hard core support crew wanting to return him to the coaching job. The IQ-challenged but otherwise likeable Matt Rogers is the latest recruit to the crew. Alan Jones has absolutely zero chance of returning to the job.

Shame about Matt Burke. I also read that the fat hooker is up for repayment of an insurance payout he received after the injury. It also struck me that the retirement from Saints was more of an escape.

It's also interesting that P. Vickery has come out strongly on the coach's side. Obviously not a happy mob of campers in France.

[finbar]

Clive - who, by the way, is also busily knifing B. Ashton after, at first, seeming to support him - joins the Leicester board.

You didn't stand for election?

[Joe Kick Ass]

I was just surprised people on this forum would agree with any stellenbosch law...

The proposed 22/kicking law is just designed to have the weak link in the back three take on kicking duties by preventing them from passing. Just kick to the poorest kicker, and you're on easy street...

stellenbosch w*nkers just want JP Pietersen taking all those kicks instead of Percy, so they can get a sh*tload of kicking errors, which is the easiest way to ensure more tries...

It's an awful (proposed) law...

If you genuinely want teams to run the ball, you don't offer them incentives to kick it away...

[Havak]

I see your point but I don't think the law change is about promoting running of the ball as much as it is about discouraging negative play. I don't have the same beef with it as the maul and ruck aspects of these changes.

I didn't know those three Directorships were becoming vacant Finbar - thats what I get for reading the annual report whilst demolishing a half case of Abbot Ale.

[Joe Kick Ass]

You're at the wrong end of the pitch for that though. You're inhibiting defenses all round, not promoting positive play.

Under stellenbosch, if you get the ball in your 22, you're f*cked kicking, or you can run, and take the lottery of the sbosch 'ruck', along with subsequently stronger defensive lines, and then pseudo-rl style 5m resets after every breakdown...

It doesn't encourage any manner of play from your own 22. It inhibits both the kicking and the running game. It's hard to say it promotes anything, other than just errors generally...

That just translates to reducing the attacking game to wendyball style long ball tactics: lump up near the opposition 22, and watch them sh*t themselves as they wonder what to do with it...

error...

score.

[Havak]

Surely the law only prohibits kicking directly into touch from a passed back ball (it effectively makes that out on the full)? It doesn't actually prohibit kicking that ball does it?

[finbar]

No, the law change has nothing to do with balls fielded inside the 22, or kicking of the ball fielded outside the 22. Fielded inside the 22, the ball can still be put into touch on the full. Fielded outside the 22 it can still be run or kicked.

I must be dense. I can't grasp your point, JKA, sorry. I don't think it's necessarily aiming to encourage running the ball, it's eliminating the soft - easy - defensive option of passing it back into the 22 to be booted on the full into touch. It can still be passed back into the 22 to the team's best kicker. He just has to put it into touch on the bounce, a greater skill than hoofing it a mile into touch.

It's the same sort of change they made in s***** when the goalie was no longer allowed to handle a ball passed back to him.

A bit like Havak, it's the least of my concerns about the new rules.

[kittenOFchaos]

I think Joe is spot on about yellow cards, the referees need to use them more often for cheating. Bringing down a maul, off you go for 10 minutes, no warnings, no 2nd, 3rd and 4th chances. The referees are basically allowing a certain amount of cheating and that is slowing down attacking play. So, less cheating as it is too costly and so faster play and if teams do cheat they'll be hard pressed to stop tries.

Just watching my recording of France Vs Argentina for 3rd/4th and the referee should have sent off an Argie for 10 minutes during that first 15. No less than 3 penalty offenses slowing down the ball, no real action.

But, one other point is that there wasn't a shortage of tries in the tournament. Just in the games involving England in the quarter, semi and final and in the final that was due to in part to the TMO not giving the benefit of the doubt to the attacking side as he should.


Well, up to half time in watching my recording of France Vs Argentina and the reffing is bad, the Argentines have got away with murder and only get a yellow once a Ibanez shoed a cheater (and so got sent off too). Daft.