Rugby World Cup: And the Winner is...

[LDiCesare]

Well, up to half time in watching my recording of France Vs Argentina and the reffing is bad, the Argentines have got away with murder and only get a yellow once a Ibanez shoed a cheater (and so got sent off too). Daft.

Yes, but the Argies still played better than the French, and more intelligently. It's a pity, but you have to understand how the referee will behave, and act accordingly. And the proposed new laws won't change that. Hands in the rucks and collapsed mauls making things easier to ref? Tssk...

[kittenOFchaos]

Don't think I like the proposed changes, what they suggest ain't rugby.

[Joe Kick Ass]

Weakening the 22 law doesn't affect the defensive game; it affects the offensive game. You need the defensive team to have full access to the 22 as a weapon against a poor offensive kicking game, and endless garryowens.

If you want to stop a team kicking to touch, you can either improve your offensive kicking game, or regulate against it. Development or legislation. It should be obvious which is better in the long run...

Competition must drive change, not dullards at the f*cking irb...

The 22 law in no way inhibits a good kicker from doing his job. If an attacking kick ends up with the defence with enough time to pass back into the 22, then tough t*tties, co-ordinate your kicks/chasers better next time.



The professional game has improved defences.

Now, attacking play will be forced to catch up, and up skill levels further in order to compete.

Or, you can pull a stellenbosch, and just dismantle those defences. Whatever...

[Havak]

It's clearly something you are passionate about but the reality is that for nearly twenty years it's been the dullards that have driven change rather than competition.

I still don't understand your specific concern as the passed back ball can still be drilled for touch - simply not DIRECTLY into touch.

The IRB have in fact never stopped tinkering with the laws since the games first RWC. Remember line outs without assisted jumping? Line outs on the try lines? Rucking players away from the wrong side? Scrums that were allowed to a) scrummage and b) go more than 5m forwards? All those have been sacrificed in the name of safety or entertainment.

I'm with Finbar on these latest changes though in that the proposed changes to mauls and rucks are so fundamental that they risk driving away the "rusted-on" fan.

And apologies Finbar - I missed the post where you flagged Mr O'Neills psychotic promotion of Northern Union (aka League) as the holy grail of entertainment.

*edit* The entire playing and coaching squad of Tigers are going to grow facial hair of their choice during November in aid of the Matt Hampson trust. Apparently it has been left optional for the ladies in the employ of the club. The new coach is so dapper I wonder if anyone has asked him to join in?

[finbar]

If he wears that pink tie from the World Cup it won't matter. The Tigers punters in the cheap seats will have beaten him to death before he gets to grow stubble.

I must be absolutely dense because I'm still missing the point about the 22 rule change. I've never liked passing the ball back into the 22 to be hoofed into touch. It's a cheap, easy option demanding no skill, IMHO.

[Havak]

And one that Blues will be using extensively next weekend I hope.

(A little in joke about the Ango-Welsh cup there).

If I read my man correctly he will wear a club tie from the moment he arrives - thereby avoiding an unfortunate beating.

[finbar]

I hope he wasn't at the Recreation Ground yesterday.

So Nose and M. Catt are bucketing their coach in the cause of selling their respective books. And O. Barkley is said to have told the coach no one knew what they were meant to be doing on the field. This is the same O. Barkley who didn't once look like he knew what he was doing on the field from the first warm up match. What a nerve.

Someone needs to point out a couple of things to these people. Yes, England made the final. Somehow. Well, mainly because the French committed tactical suicide, but the reality is that two things happened: numbers 1 to 8 functioned as both a powerful unit and at the breakdown - without Nose's input - and, as Havak observed, they committed themselves to each other. On the whole, numbers 9 to 15 might as well not have been on the field. That obviously includes M. Catt.

In many ways it's a shame England made the final. If they hadn't, these Judases would obviously still have unleashed their bile publicly. But the fact that England did make the final allows the same Judases to attempt to take credit. That's what sh*ts me the most.

[kittenOFchaos]

The same players stood behind Andy Robinson as he went into the realms of fantasy, whatever his faults B.Ashton has been significantly more successful (maybe even lucky) and even if it is true that the players realised they'd have to take responsibility, why didn't they realise that ALOT earlier? They've been taking enough poundings and are experienced enough to know that the coach can't play the game for you.

I hope B.Ashton is retained and he can remove those that are bad mouthing him and can bring through younger players to set us up for the next two world cups. Dayglo knows that Ashton hasn't a place for him and yet still wants to play for England, course he will go wrecking.

Vickery at least has come out for his coach, got to credit the guy for that especially given him and Dayglo are both Wasps players.

[Joe Kick Ass]

Originally posted by Havak
It's clearly something you are passionate about but the reality is that for nearly twenty years it's been the dullards that have driven change rather than competition.

I still don't understand your specific concern as the passed back ball can still be drilled for touch - simply not DIRECTLY into touch.

Yeah, and plenty of those kicks that can't go directly are subsequently fielded by the back three. From the safety of the lineout, to the infield kicks, and the most prolific means of scoring tries.

@finbar, in that passing back allows the 22 to be a bit more than a 22...

Skill should be in attacking effectively, not simply kicking away first phase ball knowing the defence will have to return you possession in broken play. (Which will of course be easier, if you diminish the area from which the defensive team can retreat to the 22.)

Originally posted by Havak
And one that Blues will be using extensively next weekend I hope.

Nah, no need to worry about that. We'll be running everything from our 22, straight up to yours. 30 mins to beat Sale, how many for tiggers?

Seriously though, our forwards were **** in the tight. Seems a recurring theme this weekend. I though it'd be a while before I saw a worse tighthead performance than Gary Powell put in on Friday night, but Deacon Manu easily managed that today for Scarlets. Welsh scrums getting pushed all over the place this weekend...

Honestly, we were smashed by Sale in the scrum.

Hopefully Powell won't be on the pitch next week though; who will Leicester put out?

[finbar]

D. Richards agrees with me. Obviously a man of fine taste and great judgement.

Heavens knows what all this public bile flinging is going to do for English rugby. Shame really.

EDIT. A. Gomersal has just massively undermined his credibility by describing G. Gregan as the best half back ever.

[Havak]

Andy Gomersall had a great RWC but none of that changed the fact he can be a total doofus. But to put him back in your good books can I point out that VD hates him?

I’m still laughing at the deadpan “shame really”.

I’m glad I wasn’t at the Rec on Saturday as well. It’s never fun losing to Bath.

I’ll be honest I am not paying much attention to the Ashton-gate nonsense. I’ve never really been interested in what Dayglo or Catt have to say and I’ve only been interested in quotes from Barkley on one occasion – when he was arrested earlier in the year on suspicion of affray outside a nightclub.

Warren’s (Richards) words carry a lot of weight in English rugby and he is almost certainly a future England coach. Lets hope his advice is followed and Dayglo, Catt and the Bath based Barkers all get dropped (well Catt has officially retired anyway but he should be left in no doubt he would never have been selected again).

30 mins to beat Sale, how many for tiggers?

At Welford Road? Say 110 mins?

Your point is key of course – who will Tigers field. If they decide one defeat hasn’t blown their chances of qualification the front row is likely to be Ayerza-Chuter-Castrogiavani. Not a bunch I would like to face!

[kittenOFchaos]

Who is VD Havak?

To Joe: When we field our best team I hope we can smash the Blues in more than just the scrum

[Havak]

VD is Finbar's pet name for Austin Healey since the Leicester Lip's columns during the 2001 Lions tour. The nicer interpretation is that it stands for "Verbal Diarrhoea".

Sale do seem to have too many French club players on their books now (by which I mean good players but not exceptional ones). That is what happens when you appoint PSA as a coach. As Finbar has already hinted Tigers are more than likely to sign a few more Argentinians now.

Oh Finbar - despite playing in a losing side Tom Croft made it into the BBCs best XV from round one. He played at blindside down at Bath and by all accounts played very well. I don't know if Croft is ready for England - but I am sure that England is ready for Croft.

[finbar]

I suspect the only imports the Argie will bring will be pink ties.

Unless there was some very good reason, like injury or juggling of starting positions, I found it bizarre that T. Croft was on the Tigers bench. He should at least be in the 6 Nations squad. He has real class, give him some experience. Look at M. Giteau, plucked from club rugby by Eddie.

Jake White enters the Wallaby coaching equation. I wouldn't mind. Seems a decent enough cove and he certainly brought something to the Boks. Though I would love to have the facilities and time to analyse exactly what Eddie brought to the partnership. I suspect a lot of it was support and a shoulder on which to lean. It was evident that Jake was isolated in his position, with his major official support made up of those involved in the drive for change based on colour.

Of course Jake's friendship with Eddie - on top of Eddie's treachery in linking with the Boks, which is how quite a few in Australian rugby saw the move - might count against him.

The All Blacks have lost another lock with the retirement of K. Robinson through injury. Shame really.*

EDIT. M. Catt is retreating at a million miles an hour from his published thoughts on B. Ashton. Gutless waste of space.

*This time I mean it.

[Havak]

The rumours about Hernandez aren't going away - he can probably name his own price to stay in France as Tigers are very keen to get him.

What the BBC has not given you from Catt’s latest interview is the section where he talked about his own coaching aspirations.

This is not a word for word quote – it’s my recollection of what I heard on Radio 5.

“I’d love to get involved with England at some point, there are plenty of great young lads I’d love to get my hands on”.

Cue one of those awkward pauses before the interviewer continues.

Jake White has now been linked with Wales, England and the Wallabies. Seems winning an RWC gives you options? He may well end up touting himself for every high paying sporting consultancy role that is going (just like Sir Clive).

You might mean it this time but now I’m being sarcastic when I say “shame really”.

With Chris Jack in retirement in London doesn’t this leave Ali Williams and Troy Flavell in the box seats? Now there is a pairing that every opposing side will try to wind up quick smart. Time to fast track some kids through for NZ? Who was that youngster they played in some of the pool matches?