Rugby - Laissez la balle, Bleus!

[MikeH]

Originally posted by Joe Kick Ass
79:56 he says 10 seconds...80:02 it's in touch...
what's the debate?

79:40 they started trying to ask the ref how much time they had.

I agree you should have got the lineout.

BTW it was the 4th official who said 10 seconds at 79:56, then almost immediately after he said time, the referee was just passing on the information he had. I blame the 4th official for the miscommunication and the referee for not allowing the line-out anyway.

[ravagon]

At least the ref has apologised. That doesn't happen too often and it'll probably go a fair way to mollifying the Welsh fans a bit.

I'd still have to question the Welsh judgement though. If you're told there're 10s left to play that's one thing. It's fairly definitive and you can reasonably expect the ref to allow you to do so.
If you're asking whether or not you've got enough time left to take a lineout after you put the ball into touch you're asking for an opinion based on events that haven't happened yet.
It's still a bit harsh but I don't think it's really an area where one can say that the ref is in the wrong.

I think they should've realised immediately that the margin for error in a time span of 10s wasn't really large enough to gamble with.

Hook: "Have we got enough time for the lineout?"
White: "If you do it now"

Surely unless they were talking really really fast here that would've taken half the remaining time by itself?

[Havak]

His Ruddock outburst on TV last year was a thing of legend...

I got to see it a few weeks after the event – legendary is the word.

Getting rid of Ruddock worked well in the end eh?

BTW it was the 4th official who said 10 seconds at 79:56, then almost immediately after he said time, the referee was just passing on the information he had. I blame the 4th official for the miscommunication and the referee for not allowing the line-out anyway.

The BBC web site has got the clip from the welsh rugby show where they analyse the incident – Hook kicks almost immediately after being told he has ten seconds, but seven seconds later White blows the whistle after the timekeeper tells him “I have time Chris”. White even queried if they should have the line out and the timekeeper said “no”. But that is bizarre – because it is not actually the timekeepers call to make!? White passed the buck.
Whatever way we paint it Whitey handled it poorly even if he was technically correct in what he did.

It doesn’t bother me that Wales lost – but that doesn’t mean I can pretend Chris White is a good referee when these days he clearly is not.

and it'll probably go a fair way to mollifying the Welsh fans a bit.

Mollifying the Welsh? I sometimes forget you are outside the UK fan dynamic.

His apology is largely seen as vindication they were wronged and if anything has stirred their pot up that little bit more.

He’s English – so they’ll forgive Chris White on the same day that Satan skis into work.

*edit* Interesting point about World Cup contention - we are not any such thing as only numpties could be claiming so after one performance with some slight forward progress. It's a forward step rather than a leap back into top class contention.

But the most interesting thing there is that after the 2005 6N almost every Welsh fan I met told me how they were now serious World Cup contenders - and refused to accept that the 2005 tournament was sufficiently poor as to be no indicator of relative quality (you beat a truly dire England side by a whole point wasnt it?). Two years on who was correct?

[Havak]

Incidentally Finbar would you describe it as an act of desperation for Knuckles to approach a 33 year old player earning his pension in Newcastle to see if he will come back for the World Cup?

Somehow I missed that Latham had suffered such a huge injury and forced this panic (letting Rogers go back to kiddies rugby doesn't seem so clever now?).

[finbar]

M. Rogers wanted to go back to L*****. He's had a lot of off-field problems. Depression runs in the family - Dad dead, possibly suicide; brother's attempted suicide. On top of which, he didn't want to be a spare parts player. He wanted to play #10. But he's not good enough to hold down #10 at Test level. Of, course, at that stage, C. Latham hadn't suffered his injury. So, at that stage, M. Rogers would have been a bench player covering, amongst other things, full back. Which he didn't want. So off he went. Actually, it's the Waratahs who are seriously missing him.

I suspect the whole M. Burke thing was a vague idea that made it into the media. I doubt that it was ever 100% serious. An inquiry was made. No one in their right mind would think that, at 33, and a couple of years out of rep rugby, he could be a serious contender.

[Havak]

Ditto Mike Catt.

[MikeH]

The referee can be in charge of timekeeping but he can also delegate the job to another official. According to the official rules.

[Havak]

Rugby has no rules.

He is the final arbiter of terminating the game according to the laws of Union however.

So even if he delegated that task in this case he is hiding from something that was his responsibility if he says "the fourth official told me to call time".

I was perfectly happy with the result - but Chris White messed up the end of the game even so.

Allain Rolland - who has never stuck me as a friend of England in the past - better not make a similar mess up in Cardiff.

[finbar]

Originally posted by Havak
Allain Rolland - who has never stuck me as a friend of England in the past -

You talk as though England actually has a friend.

[Havak]

Well the English refs have never done the English team any real harm - so they might be called neutral at least.

The rest are a shoddy bunch of shady Johnny Foriegners with a clear anti-English agenda (or so I think every time a decision goes against us).

More seriously Nick Easter has been ruled out through injury Finbar - Wasps James Haskell takes his place to make it an all Wasps back row (ouch!). Haskell is happier at six so Worseley moves to 8. Worseley is not the ball carrying 8 that Easter is. Haskell is good but Cardiff is a hell of a place for a debut.

[finbar]

Shame. I've never been quite sure about the appeal of J. Worsley. Never seen him do much to suggest other than he's there to make up the numbers. Still, imagine if it had been an all-Wasps back row including You Know Who.

[Havak]

Can you imagine how furious Dayglo must be? He is fit as far as I know and Ashton has picked the two youngsters from Wasps, that Larry helped to nurture, ahead of him.

And then they play Wurzle at number 8 too.

Sweet.

[ravagon]

All of the you're using lately could come back to haunt you y'know ...
Quite possibly this weekend.

Incidentally what're the odds the bookies (who I generally trust as being relatively impartial, not that Havak isn't mind you) are giving for England-Wales this weekend?
I'm guessing the English will probably still be slight favourites even though the Welsh are at home ...

[Havak]

It's not the first time something will come back to haunt me on this forum.

England are slight favourites with the turf accountants - I've seen 8/11 quoted and most odds are around that mix.

In Cardiff much always depends on how England start. When we start to build a lead early, however modest, it normally leads to a win. Much also depends on silencing the baying mob (aka the Welsh crowd).

At twickers the odds would be substantially different - Cardiff is definitely the best card the Welsh have up their sleeves.

I thought one of you might mention the point Tigers have been deducted for trying to help other clubs in England? Search it out on the BBC web site.

[finbar]

I would have mentioned it had I got here before this. Been prepping for a dinner tonight. I recall seeing at least one of the relevant games. From memory, he was kicking badly. You were penalised twice.

The danger Wales poses - to anyone - is that blowfly on the wing. Who can, from nowhere, create havoc.