Fantasy Hockey - Coming up on the Halfway Point

[Asher]

Originally posted by Tingkai
Asher, you really don't understand hockey do you.

And you canna count can ya.

Four is less than six. '

And if you knew anything about hockey, you would know that Carolina's won the Cup without having any stellar d-men.

Read my last post, get over your embarrassment, then try to talk to me about hockey.

[Tingkai]

Originally posted by Asher

Calgary handled it just fine.

Really? So in the two week period last month when the Flames lost 4 of 6 games, this is what you would describe as handling it fine? And how many were injured during this fine streak of excellent hockey?

Either you don't watch much hockey, or you don't understand what you're seeing. Which is it?

[Asher]

Originally posted by Tingkai
Really? So in the two week period last month when the Flames lost 4 of 6 games, this is what you would describe as handling it fine? And how many were injured during this fine streak of excellent hockey?

Either you don't watch much hockey, or you don't understand what you're seeing. Which is it?

Calgary sucks on the road no matter what the injuries are. If you watched the games, you'd know this.

Look at them now...we're missing 5 people, including Iginla, and we're 3-0 while down 5 guys.

[Tingkai]

Originally posted by Asher
Third -- and this is where your counting skills come in -- Flubber posted 6 guys, including White who was injured at the end of the game in question

Asher, you really should stop. You're just digging yourself deeper and deeper.

Here's what Flubber wrote:

Tingkai , who in your view is the most important injured player . TSN has the list as


Defenseman Ian White (1/9, left shoulder) left Tuesday's game against Carolina.
Forward Darcy Tucker (1/6, ankle) missed Tuesday's game against Carolina and is day-to-day.
Center Kyle Wellwood (12/30, hip flexor) is sidelined indefinitely.
Left Wing Alexei Ponikarovsky (12/26, separated shoulder) missed Tuesday's game against Carolina and is day-to-day.
Center Michael Peca (12/22, fractured fibula in right knee) is expected to be sidelined until late March. Forward Nik Antropov (12/27, ankle) is sidelined indefinitely.
Defenseman Andy Wozniewski (10/15, shoulder) is expected to be sidelined until late January.

Now, do the count carefully...

White Tucker Wellwood Ponikarovsky Peca Antropov Wozniewski

Flubber posted seven, not six names.

So let's see, you either don't know the players names, or you can't spell Tellqvist; you either can't count, or you can't read; and you either don't watch the games, or don't know what you're watching.

And on that note, good night.

[Asher]

Originally posted by Tingkai
Asher, you really should stop. You're just digging yourself deeper and deeper.

Oh, give me a frickin break. Look at his formatting, Flubber screwed up and put 7 players on 6 lines. My monitor at work is in portrait mode, I didn't see the thing on Antropov on the right as it's well off my screen unless I scroll over. In fact, I just saw that now that you reposted it in a different format.

Why do you focus on such stupid **** all the time? Why not focus on the real issue, which is teams playing through injuries.

You lost so badly on the actual meat of the issue you're resorting to this kind of stuff, nye-style. You spent a couple post fixated on how I discount Wozniewski's injury when you're using the number of injuries as a reason for the Leafs losing. Now you're spending more posts arguing about how I missed an improperly-formatted injury physically not displayed on my screen. All the while, the real topics of contention are getting buried by the wayside because you know you don't stand a chance arguing against depth being important.

You two are peas in a pod. A pod that's attached to two sinking teams. It's no surprise you both have artsy degrees, it's a familiar tactic Agathon also always employed...

[Asher]

Summary: Teams with depth fight through the injury bug to keep winning games.

Tingkai's counterpoint: LOL you missed Antropov's misformatted name on Flubber's list LOL you don't know hockey

Did I get that right?

[Flubber]

Originally posted by Tingkai

A couple of injuries, sure teams can get by, but Asher is claiming that a strong team can handle six injuries, which is just stupid No team in the NHL has the ability to perform at 100% capability when a quarter of the team is injured.

Six injuries at a time can be tough but it really depends on WHO gets injured. I would have thought that would be pretty obvious. I wouild gladly accept injuries to Freisen, Lundemark and Ference instead of one to Iggy--

What??? then the flames would have EIGHT INJURIES!! BUt they would be stronger than the roster than the roster they have now with 6 injuries!!



I don't really have much sympathy for any injuries to 3rd and 4th string players as a reason for losing. I think of a team as incluidng its reserves and a good team should be able to bench its 3rd and 4th lines and be able to replace them with folks very nearly as good

There may be exceptions for certain role players. For instance Calgary usually plays better with Yelle in the lineup since he is a key PK guy despite his "3rd line " status

[Asher]

Originally posted by Flubber
There may be exceptions for certain role players. For instance Calgary usually plays better with Yelle in the lineup since he is a key PK guy despite his "3rd line " status

Friesen is actually our best PK guy this year. His only use.

[Flubber]

Originally posted by Tingkai


Really? So in the two week period last month when the Flames lost 4 of 6 games, this is what you would describe as handling it fine? And how many were injured during this fine streak of excellent hockey?

Err I don't think it was the quantity of injuries in that stretch-- It was a stretch of mainly road games where the Flames have had a big problem. Ad in a Vancouver squad that was playing very well and owned the Flames

In the current stretch with 6 guys injured (note the dates are not right) the Flames have won three in a row but all were at home.

Forward Chuck Kobasew (1/11, concussion) is questionable for Thursday's game against Colorado. Forward Jarome Iginla (1/6, sprained left knee) is expected to be sidelined until mid-January. Forward Darren McCarty (1/11, hip) is questionable for Thursday's game against Colorado. Defenseman Richie Regehr (1/11, concussion-like symptoms) is questionable for Thursday's game against Colorado. Defenseman Andrei Zyuzin (1/11, groin) is questionable for Thursday's game against Colorado. Forward Marcus Nilson (12/6, knee) is sidelined indefinitely

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/injuries/

IF they lose tonight is it because of the injuries?-- well partly yes since they are a stronger team with Iggy than without him. BUt it would be mainly due to their own poor play on the road OR the efforts of a reasonably good Avs squad. After all, the Avs are missing 4 players themselves.

Overall I accept that injuries can greatly affect a team but I agree with Asher that its part of the game and ability to adapt is key. So if Kipper goes down to injury and the Flames lose a few-- yes the injury was a part of the reason BUT at the same time , the quality of the back-up is an attribute of the Flames. If the back-up cannot step up to play well, it could be argued that those losses would be attributable to a lack of depth at the position

[Flubber]

Originally posted by Asher


Friesen is actually our best PK guy this year. His only use.

While I see on the statistic used that Friesen leads, I would say that Lombardi was our most effective pk guy. I would be curious if the stats could be broken down to 5-4 time versus 5-3 time. I believe (without having a source) that LOmbardi played more frequently on those 5 on 3s than Friesen and that may hurt his stats.


Also your stats reveal that Yelle is obviously a first -team PK player.( minutes in games played since his injury) I don't believe he is as yet playing as well as last year either

[Asher]

Originally posted by Flubber
While I see on the statistic used that Friesen leads, I would say that Lombardi was our most effective pk guy. I would be curious if the stats could be broken down to 5-4 time versus 5-3 time. I believe (without having a source) that LOmbardi played more frequently on those 5 on 3s than Friesen and that may hurt his stats.


Also your stats reveal that Yelle is obviously a first -team PK player.( minutes in games played since his injury) I don't believe he is as yet playing as well as last year either

I would like to see the 5-3 stats too for this. They're not my stats, BTW, the charts are all from http://battleofalberta.blogspot.com. The guy who does the chart is, of course, the Flames poster there (who is an engineer by trade). The Edmonton poster there is some liberal academic weeny and just posts stupid comments (such as the Godard/Boogaard fight being a "draw").

Here's an interesting chart on league-wide powerplay scoring (From 05-06).

[Flubber]

Originally posted by Asher

I would like to see the 5-3 stats too for this. They're not my stats, BTW, the charts are all from http://battleofalberta.blogspot.com.

I didn't think you generated the stats.


Its just from watching the Flames games I know that I usually see Lombardi or Yelle out there as the single forward on a 5 on 3. I don't know if Freisen has had that role much or at all.

You new chart does show that the rate of scoring on 5 on 3s is dramatically higher (no shock there) so it could be a weakness of the statistic youn cited if it is not accounted for in some fashion.

[Tingkai]

Originally posted by Asher
Why do you focus on such stupid **** all the time? Why not focus on the real issue, which is teams playing through injuries.

Dude, you're the one that keeps talking about how there are only six not seven injured.

As for the gist of the issue, the argument goes like this:

me: The Leafs have lots of injuries so I'll be happy if they can play hard and win some games.


you: Injuries don't matter.

Me: one injured player can be replace, replacing six injured players is difficult.

you: injuries don't matter, a team with six injured players can play the same as if they had no injuries if the team has depth.

me: Having seven injured players reduces a teams depth and its ability to compensate for injuries.

you: injuries don't matter.

Flubber: it depends on who is injured, losing a star player is worse than losing a couple of role players.

Me: no kidding

[Asher]

Originally posted by Tingkai
you: injuries don't matter, a team with six injured players can play the same as if they had no injuries if the team has depth.

That was not what I said. Use your journalism degree to good use and read what was said.

me: Having seven injured players reduces a teams depth and its ability to compensate for injuries.

You never said this. This was also never in contention. You are missing the point of what I said, either out of your inability to comprehend it or your inability to concede that injuries should not be an excuse for losing games.

What I said, many times, is that depth is a quality of a good team. You should still be able to win games with six players out, and that's a fact. Injuries are not an excuse for losing, and teams that use it as an excuse need an attitude adjustment.

Injuries are opportunities for other players to step up. Look at the Flames as an example, Tingkai.

[Asher]

...as I typed that, David Moss just scored again for Calgary.