Rugby - Hands Off Green!

[Havak]

Excuse me a moment before I reply:



I refuse to look at the resignation statement in detail just yet but I can tell you that it is a real classic in the self delusional stakes.

Gatland - absolutely. He laid the foundation for the current Ireland team and worked wonders with the hateful insects (Wasps for the uninitiated).

Mallet I am cooler on - not a huge fan of his Boks record and whilst he was very successful with Stade Francais that is qualifed by the fact that Paris are the richest club side in the world and live by cheque book rules.

I'd add Nigel Melville (although he has just joined the Eagles on a long deal) and Dean Richards (very good as long as someone gives him the players rather than asking him to sign any).

Outsiders include Richard Hill (of Bristol) or Dean Ryan of Gloucester (whom I do not like myself).

And here is a thought, we could always secure Graham Henry for after the RWC (whatever happens there I expect he will move on).

Plus Martin Johnson as a motivational coach.

[finbar]

His statement is about as damaging as he could manage. Still having the support of the players and team management? Whether true or false, it tries to stir the pot of dissent.

I suspect J**** will end up in the mix somewhere, if not as coach.

[Havak]

His statement in bizarre in the extreme - after the recent series he still expected to lead England through a successful RWC in 2007? Hope speaking over experience? Or psychotic medication speaking over sanity?

In all honesty appointing Jonno as coach is a bit daft - he has no coaching experience. He can contribute in other ways.

Still he has gone - and the long road back starts here.

[ravagon]

Originally posted by Havak
Seems to be some confusion there Ravagon - NZ bumped the haka not the WRU.

Both sides have handled it badly - but the arrogance ratio is sitting firmly towards the NZ Unions side.

Mobius has a simple point - if it was a problem why not mention it on 16th october instead of on the morning of the test.

You're misinterpreting my use of the word 'bumped'.

I too have a simple point. Wales were playing mind-games. You don't dignify that with a response.
Incidentally, the chap that Mobius quoted is now saying that his view was 'misinterpreted' by the Welsh and that their proposed 'change of schedule', shall we say, was not an appropriate response.
Entirely accidental no doubt.

Plus Martin Johnson as a motivational coach.

Well that'd give England an advantage over us. I don't think we've had a team mascot for some time.

[Havak]

And you will never have a masoct of that stature in my lifetime either.

But where we lead NZ will follow - just ask Anton who claims the rebuilding of Kiwi forward power by G.Henry was prompted by England (up to 2003).

I don't have an axe to grind over a Wales-Kiwi bust up and I'm not looking to wind you up (for once) - but I am intrigued that you recognise that Wales were playing mind games but miss the fact that NZ played them right back.

Ultimately however Wales were the hosts and they aren't obliged to let NZ do a Haka at all - at least until the IRB capitulates to NZ pressure and legislates that the haka is always immediately before kick off everywhere in the world. You know, the same way they prescribed that the opposition must stand meekly 10 metres away with eyes open and watch quietly because once a cunning hooker dared to rise the the challenge and the ABs didn't like it

Okay so I lied - I am looking to wind you up.

It's one rule for the Kiwis - and the Kiwis rules for everyone else?

[finbar]

I cannot believe some of the bumpf coming out of Rob Andrews' mouth:

England are unlikely to have a new head coach in place for the start of the 2007 Six Nations, says Rob Andrew.

"If you are a betting man you would think it is highly likely (no-one will be appointed by 3 February)," said the Rugby Football Union's elite director.

What have they been doing for the last month? Or couple of months? Later, he goes on to agree with A. Robinson that the England rugby system is b*ggered and they should do something about it.

Yes, Havak, I know you've complained long and hard about the idiocy of the RFU, but honestly ...

[Havak]

Worse than that in his previous life (as coach of Newcastle) he proposed a new structure for the season (and quite a sensible one too).

So I would also ask what has he been doing since taking this executive job he occupies three months ago?

The reality of the RFU is they operate the budget airline principle, to whit when a player is on the pitch he is earning money for them, when sat on his backside he is not. They therefore sign up to mickey mouse competitions (hello EDF cup) and sell the TV rights, then complain that cluibs are sending them players that are "not fresh" and moan about the structure of a season that they are responsible for.

I might fire a few shots at other Unions but trust me when I say the RFU is in a league of it's own.

My solution is simple - split the Premiership into two pools (drawn by lottery). Top two in each pool play off for the title (I'm against play offs myself but it is the way pools would have to work) . Bottom side in each pool play off for relegation. Scrap the EDF cup totally.

The team that wins the Premiership will then have played 12 games to do so instead of 24. this also allows the European game pools to be kept as is - and should a side ever win the Premiership and European cup again it would be 21 games instead of 33. It brings our playing tally closer to SH numbers.

I'd also like to see the Six nations at the end of the season not in Feb-Mar. However the French keep blocking this because their Top 16 runs so late into the summer.

[finbar]

Your solution is admirable. Trouble is, I suspect the clubs wouldn't wear it. Fewer games mean less income and the clubs are businesses with high overheads.

Same old bottom line. English rugby, for all the reasons we all know, is club-oriented. Not the case in Australia or New Zealand or even South Africa. Everything is structured upwards towards the national team. Dunno how les grenouilles are set up. In England, the national team hovers alongside the clubs in a sort of parallel universe.

I wonder how long it will take for evidence of polonium-210 to turn up at RFU headquarters? To which your answer is: "As long as it takes for me to get down there on the train".

[LDiCesare]

French rugby is strongly based on the clubs. A bit quite like England I believe. I'm not familiar with them but it's the club who pay their players and the FFR must send them some money back for lending the players.
I have no idea how it works exactly, though I believe that Blanco, who's the representative of the professional clubs, manages things quite well. However, the clubs themselves are very divided:
The Stade Francais, Stade Toulousain, Clermont, Biarritz and Perpignan are quite rich. Other clubs like Castres or Bourgoin manage to get some money too. Others like Albi, Bayonne, or even Agen, have very little money. So the expectations are not the same between Paris and Montauban. The top clubs would like less French championship matches, maybe only 14 or 12 clubs in the elite, since they'll earn some money from European Cup matches, and many of their players will be used by international matches. Small clubs want more championship matches because that's all they can get, and they're quite happy to play a Stade Francais lacking 15 international players...

[kittenOFchaos]

The League structure excuse is surely abit lame given that the Irish Teams are playing just as many games in the Celtic League and they aren't struggling like England has been.

Head Coach for England?

Jerry Guscott who is a miserable old sod and it is about time he showed how much better a job he'd do of it over Robinson and Co.

[Frozzy]

You know, the same way they prescribed that the opposition must stand meekly 10 metres away with eyes open and watch quietly because once a cunning hooker dared to rise the the challenge and the ABs didn't like it

You mean Richard Cockerill?

[Havak]

Yep - old Cockers himself. Richard came out of the same mould as Brian Moore. Currently Tigers forwards coach he has been in trouble as much from the dug out as he ever was on the field.

[Havak]

I'm not familiar with them but it's the club who pay their players and the FFR must send them some money back for lending the players.

It’s similar in that I believe a lump sum is paid to each Premiership side as a cover for all call ups.

Small clubs want more championship matches because that's all they can get, and they're quite happy to play a Stade Francais lacking 15 international players...

Again this resonates. The more players you provide for the national side the more you get punished for it by being forced to fulfil league fixtures on the same date. Tigers have suffered this way for years.

The League structure excuse is surely abit lame given that the Irish Teams are playing just as many games in the Celtic League and they aren't struggling like England has been.

I think you need to go back and count the comparative number of fixtures again – the Celtic League does not provide the number of fixtures that the Premiership does.

It would also be worth your comparing how many games an England player fulfils in a year with the number a typical All Black would - it will surprise you I suspect. SANZAR has faults - but it protects it's players.

Jerry Guscott who is a miserable old sod

Guscott is from the Andy Grey school of criticism. In other words he will never put his money where his mouth was. Whilst a talented centre he was, for want of a better way of putting it, of questionable application (lazy). You never saw him with a dirty shirt even in January.

As a summariser he is entirely negative, destructive and superior. He should be working for Channel 7 in Australia.

I prefer Davies or Finbar’s old friend Healey as they are honest but also giving in what they say – they don’t just throw everyone to the wolves.

And the irony – Guscott’s career ending injury in RWC 99 opened the door for a young Greenwood who turned out to be a far far far better player than the whiney Bath man ever was.

[finbar]

Phew. Are J. Guscott's ears burning red this morning?

[flipside]

Originally posted by Havak


You know, the same way they prescribed that the opposition must stand meekly 10 metres away with eyes open and watch quietly because once a cunning hooker dared to rise the the challenge and the ABs didn't like it

It came from the Irish in '89 first. It's my first tv rugby memory
We should do it again. Shelford accepted it. It is the best response to the haka.
Beats staring at Katherine Jenkin's norks.