Nolan is so ridiculous

[Elok]

Ah. I skimmed the Wiki entry in a few spare minutes circa 4:45 before I went to work. Whatever it is, it sure as hell wasn't written for me to consume.

[The Mad Monk]

Look, are you trying to be Mobius, or the unholy lovechild of Mobius and Molly bloody Bloom? "I was just reading this fascinating book about the Moroccan genocide--it's kind of an obvious subject, of course, not like the genocide in the tiny breakaway ex-Soviet republic of Grztplakistan that took place over three weeks in 1986--and it turns out that one was America's fault too. Long story short, I came twice."

This YT I watched about a year ago does a very good job of properly explaining wtf Mobius is probably going on about.

[Bereta_Eder]

I found the exact word
λευκώλενος

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%CE%BB%CE%B5%CF%85%CE%BA%CF%8E%CE%BB%CE%B5%CE%BD%C E%BF%CF%82

this is the ONLY description homer gave about beautiful helen.

so nolan is a little prck.

[Bereta_Eder]

so unless that cannibal of culture has some skin disease, she ain't got the part


and here is the whole tale in ancient and modern greek so noone can deny anything

https://www.greek-language.gr/digitalResources/ancient_greek/library/browse.html?text_id=133

[Bereta_Eder]

Record change of course and damage repair
I have changed, you must understand it
Do not search for me within internationalist tendencies
The internationalisms were not built on healthy foundations
Enough with that fairy tale
The soup level of the cosmopolitan
Has risen so much it touches my nose
There is a problem
I'm trying not to lose my national identity
Within this crowd
That had the Aquarian Age ethos forced upon them
Agents of the New Age operating in the dim light

Therefore in our era, as usual
The political being of Aristotle is absent
The New World Order wants a ruined man
A simple number in statistics
A society of homogenized consumers
It wants us as pawns on the chessboard
Of global power-holders
Of oil cartels and multinational corporations
And unfortunately, it goes somewhat like this

Everyone lives without the slightest suspicion
While the disease has started eating our leg
It will be too late when they discover the conspiracy
It will be too late when we are at the funeral

Wise is the obvious
Yet everyone speaks with half-words and evasions
Modern intellect brings confusion and obfuscation
Instead of giving enlightenment
It is a fact that we are under occupation
We are governed by politicians of murky origin
Subservients to dark decision-making centers
Self-proclaimed spiritual leaders
Maintaining a guilty tolerance
Everything pushes us towards a new era of gloom
Fall becomes synonymous with progress
They don't want us to be Greeks
But citizens of the world
You see, the ideology of the mass-man
Suits the global power priesthoods
Which export a model
And try to force it upon us
By hook or by crook

They don't want a peaceful global community
That leaves room for multiplicity
According to them, globalization
Means leveling uniformization
That's why they have in their crosshairs
Our bloodline, our language, our religion, and our way of life
They have made a noose for our neck
They are falsifying our past
For the benefit of their own future
They are preparing the ground for the coming of a cyber-Middle Ages
Darkness for me and for you
Darkness 2001
They attack intentionally from all sides
Against the undogmatic Greek spirit
Do not be surprised at all
The ethno-cide operation is in progress
Without reaction, we enter the mouth of the wolf
Greece is a new type of colony
Playing the role of the Trojan Horse
Their enlisted mouthpieces are playing
Those who get elected work for foreign interests
They are opening the backdoor
Assisted by modern
Herostratuses and Ephialteses
They are not being perceived
By a nation of sleepwalkers

And everyone lives without the slightest suspicion
While the disease has started eating our leg
It will be too late when they discover the conspiracy
It will be too late when we are at the funeral

[Bereta_Eder]

ok a bit nationalist but damn that's hardcore

[Bereta_Eder]

AI translation can go so far.

Our bloodline, our language, our religion, and our way of life

very sloppily translated

this is the ὅμαιμόν τε καὶ ὁμόγλωσσον καὶ θεῶν ἱδρύματά τε κοινὰ καὶ θυσίαι ἤθεά τε ὁμότροπα

herodotus.

https://ae-lib.org.ua/texts-c/herodotus__historiae_8__gr.htm

The Athenians reassured the Spartans by stating that what fundamentally unites the Greek people (to Hellenikon) is:

• Same blood (homaemon): Sharing common ancestry and lineage.

• Same language (homoglosson): Speaking the same language or dialects.

• Shared shrines and sacrifices: Worshipping the same gods at common sanctuaries.

• Similar customs (ethea): Sharing a common way of life and traditions.
  Current Epigraphy +4

[N35t0r]

Actually, in all fairness, now that I've had some time to cool off, I did rather show my ass here. A black woman playing Helen of Troy is still dumb but I came on way too strong and probably should not have posted while wishing I could sleep at zero-ass-thirty. Sorry about that!

EDIT I should also probably apologize for doing three posts in a row.

It's as dumb as most of the actors having perfect teeth, unblemished skin and being really tall for bronze age standards...

[Bereta_Eder]

damn they were a great band. started anarchistic but then turned nationalistic but great talent anyway

The method of procrustes (I bring to my size every *****)

[Jon Miller]

People from Ethiopia visited Greece in Antiquity.

So, no issue with dark skin on the screen (probably shouldn't be the majority).

JM

[Jon Miller]

Cannonically, while Helen was not black, other heroes of the Trojan War were. Like Memnon, who fought Achilles (and was killed).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Memnon...%20in%20terror.

It shouldn't be out of place to make Helen black.

JM

[BeBMan]

In the end we don't know if the whole war even occured (though there's evidence for some destructive event in at least one layer of Troy) or if any of the "real" persons (as in "no gods") did even exist.

Our image of it is mostly shaped by classical Greece, and we know far less about late bronze age Greece/Mediterranean, where the war is usually situated.

Plus there's artistic license to change things. It can go both ways, and in big budget movies it's often done for commercial reasons, yeah, but without it anyone doing anything today based on Homer (or similar) would be bound to a faithful replication of it or at least the mainstream view of it, which is the end of creativity.

[Uncle Sparky]

I saw the movie, and rather enjoyed it. However-
1) Why didn't Peter Parker ever fight as Spider-man? In a couple of scenes, it really would have helped. And Mary Jane was only in scenes with Odysseus
Weird.
2) Why did Juno end up dressed as a boy, just to get killed off? Since this is a Greek story, shouldn't it have been Hera?
3) Why did they leave out the mighty Hercules? Not to mention Newton and Tewt?
4) Why did they go with the Trojan horse rather than the more historically accurate Trojan Rabbit?

So yes, it was flawed, but it's nice to see Mel Brooks still making movies at his age.

[BeBMan]

Re Peter Parker, obvsly he can#t do Spidey stuff without the correct costume!

[Uncle Sparky]

5) Why was Cyclops the only X-Man in the movie? And some of you have issues with other characters - wow! definately not Scott Summers!

[Elok]

This is not about historical accuracy for me--I make no claims on behalf of any other nerds on the intertubes. Basically every part of the Odyssey is probably false except that there was some violence at Troy and Ithaca is a real island and there is water between those two locations. Not the point. I'm criticizing this from the angle of verisimilitude, the internal reality of a story. When we tell stories, we spin up a synthetic reality inside our imaginations, and the maintenance of that illusory world depends on it being internally consistent. A Kenyan Helen is, on its face, absurd. No, Matt Damon does not look like his last name could literally be Papadelis. The filmmakers are merely gesturing in approximately the correct direction, within certain constraints (the only actual Greek-descended celebrities I can think of are Jennifer Aniston, Tina Fey, and the Big Fat Greek Wedding lady, none of them is a really big name lately, and established stars make buzz and sell movies). With Helen, they made the conscious choice to gesture in the wildly incorrect direction, and now I am being foisted off with a completely different character who did not hail from the heartland of Greece being black, modern actors being tall and having good teeth, etc. Come on. That's dumb. Nolan made an intentionally jarring casting choice, and I'm getting for noticing that it's a really jarring choice.

I realize this was not a problem for the many people who went to see it. This does not mean anything to me. The general public is, as a rule, more willing to tolerate nonsense than I am, and I can accept that. In the end, it doesn't matter, because again, the Odyssey would function perfectly well as a story with Helen never appearing onscreen. I'm just saying, that this one little irrelevant detail ... is stupid. That is all. The End.

EDIT: to be clear, I'm not not-watching this movie because of Helen, or any other casting choice; I'm not gonna see it because the only Nolan movie I've really liked was The Dark Knight, and that was mostly Heath Ledger's doing. Batman Begins, Dark Knight Rises, and Inception were all pretty meh. In general the man's head is just lodged regrettably far up his own ass, and while Helen being black for some artistic reason or other is a symptom of that, it's not, in itself, a good reason not to see the movie.

[BeBMan]

This is not about historical accuracy for me--I make no claims on behalf of any other nerds on the intertubes. Basically every part of the Odyssey is probably false except that there was some violence at Troy and Ithaca is a real island and there is water between those two locations. Not the point. I'm criticizing this from the angle of verisimilitude, the internal reality of a story.

No prob here, I just think it's hard to separate these aspects here.

In ancient Greece they saw this as history. If everyone was clearly aware that it is not or that is just a story with some historical core, there would be no reason for folks like Alexander the Great relating himself to Achilles, and to Zeus (or whoever, including later Romans relating themselves to their Gods/Goddesses or mythical heroes) to increase his standing.

To be accepted as history there has to be some plausibility in the way Greeks depicted their "world".

Now Nolan comes along and changes stuff as he wants. As posted before, not everything makes sense to me, but it's also not something that I see as an absolute NoNo.



/cents.