"Trump is following a playbook written for him by Christian White Nationalists."

[Geronimo]

Yet here we are, gathering more points regarding what the US administration now is and that correlation coefficient is not moving away from 1. Untrustworthy is starting to look like understatement. Treacherous and reckless I think are some different terms coming to mind.

I think today's display is further cementing that understanding. What distasteful behaviour for the self-proclaimed "leader of the free world". Not mine, I will tell you that now.

Boycott and isolation is our first recourse, the first of those can be exercised at a personal level, and exercising it we are.

Sadly a wildly successful boycott will utterly fail to serve any interest other than your long professed desire to see "the special relationship" ended between the UK and the US.

if European imports of US goods were to noticeably fall it will surely just be used to sell bigger US tarrifs against Europe and help defuse domestic outrage against Trump trashing US diplomatic capital.

Also do you have a shred of evidence that these US based sellers were supporting Trump?

Europe's enemies (especially Trump) will surely be pleased by any informal European boycotting of US products and services.

[Provost Harrison]

Sadly a wildly successful boycott will utterly fail to serve any interest other than your long professed desire to see "the special relationship" ended between the UK and the US.

if European imports of US goods were to noticeably fall it will surely just be used to sell bigger US tarrifs against Europe and help defuse domestic outrage against Trump trashing US diplomatic capital.

Also do you have a shred of evidence that these US based sellers were supporting Trump?

Europe's enemies (especially Trump) will surely be pleased by any informal European boycotting of US products and services.

Well it's a boycott that has gained wide momentum, you've got Canada to thank for leading with an excellent example 👍

And more tariffs, again, who pays the tariff? You do! Yes, it may impact demand but on vital equipment, steel, etc, that you don't make yourself and can't switch supply chains around? Inelasticity is a *****.

Also it's not about that these companies are associated with Trump. It's the fact they're part of your economic strength, they bring money into the US. So hurting them hurts the US. Guilty by association I'm afraid. And at the moment I'm finding very little as distasteful as your government and until you, collectively, do something about them, we will

And by "Europe's enemies" do you mean "US's new found friends"? And therein lies the crux of the issue...the sheer betrayal.

[Dauphin]

if European imports of US goods were to noticeably fall it will surely just be used to sell bigger US tarrifs against Europe and help defuse domestic outrage against Trump trashing US diplomatic capital.

You mean a trade war, which is on it's way anyway. When things get expensive I don't think people will think through geopolitics, and will just vote for the people who can make things better. i.e. the other guy / gal.

Also do you have a shred of evidence that these US based sellers were supporting Trump?

If this is about fairness, does it matter? Trump has no evidence to underpin his economic policies. If it is about political persuasion, I would agree it is better to target industries where Trumps support is strong, but you'll probably get most political impact if you do it where support is marginal - target swing states.

[Dauphin]

Speaking of which, how are Tesla sales doing at the moment?

[Geronimo]

Well it's a boycott that has gained wide momentum, you've got Canada to thank for leading with an excellent example 👍

And more tariffs, again, who pays the tariff? You do! Yes, it may impact demand but on vital equipment, steel, etc, that you don't make yourself and can't switch supply chains around? Inelasticity is a *****.

Also it's not about that these companies are associated with Trump. It's the fact they're part of your economic strength, they bring money into the US. So hurting them hurts the US. Guilty by association I'm afraid. And at the moment I'm finding very little as distasteful as your government and until you, collectively, do something about them, we will

And by "Europe's enemies" do you mean "US's new found friends"? And therein lies the crux of the issue...the sheer betrayal.

Exactly! US consumers pay these moronic tariffs!


Also you don't seem to understand that hurting the US will do precisely zero to help Europe. What is the real harm that Trump's stupidity does to Europe? What is the real good that will come to Europe from harm that they will successfully place on the US?

it looks like another tantrum with no thought to consequences.


I Mean Europe's enemies when I say Europe's enemies fool. As clueless as Trump's entire foreign policy has been this tantrum of spite may well outdo it.


Think of consequences. Think of the future and think about real harm. Net US harm to European interests is laughably small compared to what Europe vs a divested hostile US will be

[Geronimo]

You mean a trade war, which is on it's way anyway. When things get expensive I don't think people will think through geopolitics, and will just vote for the people who can make things better. i.e. the other guy / gal.



If this is about fairness, does it matter? Trump has no evidence to underpin his economic policies. If it is about political persuasion, I would agree it is better to target industries where Trumps support is strong, but you'll probably get most political impact if you do it where support is marginal - target swing states.

What will the endgame look like? No more threats of tariffs? Will that be less likely vs a market that buys little to nothing from the US? A massive boycott may make the tariffs even more attractive.

[Dauphin]

Endgame is everyone realises how dumb they are being when things turn to **** due to squabbling, and start working together again.

[Provost Harrison]

Exactly! US consumers pay these moronic tariffs!


Also you don't seem to understand that hurting the US will do precisely zero to help Europe. What is the real harm that Trump's stupidity does to Europe? What is the real good that will come to Europe from harm that they will successfully place on the US?

it looks like another tantrum with no thought to consequences.


I Mean Europe's enemies when I say Europe's enemies fool. As clueless as Trump's entire foreign policy has been this tantrum of spite may well outdo it.


Think of consequences. Think of the future and think about real harm. Net US harm to European interests is laughably small compared to what Europe vs a divested hostile US will be

At face value, little to help Europe. In fact (at least in the short term) they are going to be quite unpleasant. But when we're looking at a former ally who can rearm Russia better than where it was before, has reneged on its security agreements, then there is a long-term strategic view there...to undermine the position of the US. Like we do with any hostile power. I mean, all bets are off at the moment. Things we thought couldn't happen have happened, and then some we couldn't have imagined. And that's barely over a month into this presidency.

I'm sorry if you don't like it but tariffs are the tip of the iceberg on this one. You've completely spaffed the US's diplomatic capital and goodwill towards it up the wall. Every act of the US further confirms what everyone's worst case scenarios are...in fact I'd say worst case scenarios have had to be revised substantially. And for such an interconnected country (you rely heavily on services and so economically dominant in this respect it isn't even funny - and doesn't even seem to be seen by Trump), that is fatal. Not now, not in a few months but in the timescale of years you've basically tainted the USA for all to see, advertised in flashing neon lights.

The end game will be to redistribute trade amongst the rest of the world and to force US assets to be divested as untenable under the circumstances. And if your government proceeds down this road it may get to the gloomy part where national security leapfrogs that and there ends up being a sequestration of such assets, or a forced divestment if necessary. It doesn't look pretty.

Just to add, I'd say a lot of US services such as social media Xitter, Facebook, etc., are looking compromised and action needs to be taken to get compliance in terms of them not spreading disinformation - or just straight up propaganda from your regime. It's one of the most immediate clear and present dangers. Whether anything happens remains to be seen.

[Aeson]

Canada and the EU are doing what's right. You can't just give in to a bully. Hopefully enough of the people who support Trump will learn he's not in their best interest and get their representatives to stop this insanity.

[Geronimo]

At face value, little to help Europe. In fact (at least in the short term) they are going to be quite unpleasant. But when we're looking at a former ally who can rearm Russia better than where it was before, has reneged on its security agreements, then there is a long-term strategic view there...to undermine the position of the US. Like we do with any hostile power. I mean, all bets are off at the moment. Things we thought couldn't happen have happened, and then some we couldn't have imagined. And that's barely over a month into this presidency.

I'm sorry if you don't like it but tariffs are the tip of the iceberg on this one. You've completely spaffed the US's diplomatic capital and goodwill towards it up the wall. Every act of the US further confirms what everyone's worst case scenarios are...in fact I'd say worst case scenarios have had to be revised substantially. And for such an interconnected country (you rely heavily on services and so economically dominant in this respect it isn't even funny - and doesn't even seem to be seen by Trump), that is fatal. Not now, not in a few months but in the timescale of years you've basically tainted the USA for all to see, advertised in flashing neon lights.

The end game will be to redistribute trade amongst the rest of the world and to force US assets to be divested as untenable under the circumstances. And if your government proceeds down this road it may get to the gloomy part where national security leapfrogs that and there ends up being a sequestration of such assets, or a forced divestment if necessary. It doesn't look pretty.

Just to add, I'd say a lot of US services such as social media Xitter, Facebook, etc., are looking compromised and action needs to be taken to get compliance in terms of them not spreading disinformation - or just straight up propaganda from your regime. It's one of the most immediate clear and present dangers. Whether anything happens remains to be seen.

Completely spaffed the US's diplomatic capital is an own goal. you're justifying immediate harm to the US for an own goal (series of own goals really) that it is executing? immediate harm caused by means that you admit harm Europe's interests? that's stupid. really stupid.

The US is not the same as the other hostile powers. it hasn't yet harmed Europe. just threats and bluster. The best case for harming Trump and all in the US acting to harm Europe's long term interests would be to make him call his bluff on these tariffs. *boycotts could easily make Trump actually executing on such threats vastly more likely* If it seems that exports of US goods to these markets are in the tank and trade deficits are skyrocketing *before* the tariffs are actually placed it will be vastly more tempting and easier to give a veneer of defensibility to actually implementing them.

On the topic of Ukraine and Trump's betrayal of Ukraine are you not aware that while an overwhelming majority of US aid to Ukraine has been in the form of grants, gifts really, the overwhelming majority of Europe's aid to Ukraine is in the form of loans which will be repaid? *To date* Europe has betrayed Ukraine far more than the US. Europe has betrayed Ukraine many times over. where were the boycotts on European goods? would they have helped bring Europe in line to US generosity? I wasn't aware of how bad the disparity was until I saw it in a BBC news article this morning. Now the article is not to be found. user feedback perhaps?

How does the boycott help Europe short term, medium term, and long term? what do you think the response will be? fools.

[Geronimo]

Canada and the EU are doing what's right. You can't just give in to a bully. Hopefully enough of the people who support Trump will learn he's not in their best interest and get their representatives to stop this insanity.

I completely agree. I advocate a response of unity at the top levels. Not boycotts. Boycotts are for when the threats turn out not be bluffs and it's too late for the excrement to hit the fan. A unified shared statement from all government of retaliation in kind could make him blink. informal boycotts will surely just turn bluffs into realized threats. I think it may already be too late for Canada and Mexico.

[Aeson]

On the topic of Ukraine and Trump's betrayal of Ukraine are you not aware that while an overwhelming majority of US aid to Ukraine has been in the form of grants, gifts really, the overwhelming majority of Europe's aid to Ukraine is in the form of loans which will be repaid? *To date* Europe has betrayed Ukraine far more than the US. Europe has betrayed Ukraine many times over. where were the boycotts on European goods? would they have helped bring Europe in line to US generosity? I wasn't aware of how bad the disparity was until I saw it in a BBC news article this morning. Now the article is not to be found. user feedback perhaps?

We "gave" Ukraine $175 billion. Now Trump is claiming it was $300 billion and wants $500 billion back. He's a con man and a loan shark.

It's worse than that though. Much of the value we sent to Ukraine is in old equipment we were replacing anyway. We claim the replacement value as our total contribution. The actual value is much lower.

Much of what we spent of the Ukraine aid didn't actually go to Ukraine at all. It supported US military activities in the region, and some to other countries.

[Dauphin]

On the topic of Ukraine and Trump's betrayal of Ukraine are you not aware that while an overwhelming majority of US aid to Ukraine has been in the form of grants, gifts really, the overwhelming majority of Europe's aid to Ukraine is in the form of loans which will be repaid?

I wasn't aware of how bad the disparity was until I saw it in a BBC news article this morning

Be wary of such statements.

Your statement is correct for financial aid. However i) only about a quarter of all EU aid is financial aid and ii) most EU institution loans under financial aid are being repaid from seized Russian assets.

According to the EU, as of February 25, 2025, 65% of European aid has been grants of in-kind support. 35% has been concessional loans secured and typically being repaid from seized assets of Russia held with EU financial institutions.

These things are not as simple as looking at a headline number. I won't claim to understand the true positions, but your original statement is probably true, but incomplete and misleading,

[Aeson]

I completely agree. I advocate a response of unity at the top levels. Not boycotts. Boycotts are for when the threats turn out not be bluffs and it's too late for the excrement to hit the fan. A unified shared statement from all government of retaliation in kind could make him blink. informal boycotts will surely just turn bluffs into realized threats. I think it may already be too late for Canada and Mexico.

Boycotts are what everyday people can do right now to try to send the message.

Trump isn't bluffing on tariffs and "making other governments pay". He's already reduced income tax revenue due to changes in the IRS, and promising to do more. He needs the revenue from somewhere. He's already trying to shake down Ukraine for $500 billion to repay a $109 billion gift.

[N35t0r]

Hell, a lot of the ordinance sent to Ukraine (like the cluster missiles that Ukraine disassembled to use the bomblets in drones) were things that were costing the US money.