How is your counter-offensive doing...

[Berzerker]

also bare in mind that you arte defending a regime that has killed raped and what not an entire innocent peoples.


future russians will hiude their identity much like the germans after ww2....

I don't think you realize what you are trying to defend

Are we talking about Kiev or Moscow or Washington (or all 3)? I'm an American, we've been butchering people for centuries. I'm defending the right of Ukrainians to "separate" themselves from violent right wingers, I dont see how Russia is relevant. I dont want to arm those right wingers much less to provoke a proxy war with Russia. And boy has that backfired on the neocons. The world is choosing sides and China and Russia are winning.

[-Jrabbit]

Here's what's relevant:
Russia has invaded Ukraine. Ukraine is a sovereign nation.

All your ongoing, RT-inspired excuses for why that's somehow OK are totally invalid.

[Berzerker]

We've invaded dozens of countries in my lifetime and none of them were waging a Russian backed proxy war on our border. As for RT, haven't they been censored in the west? Oh look, up in the sky, its a bird, no, its...its... the Ghost of Kiev! I get my information from skeptics with connections and the side winning the war doesn't need propaganda.

[PLATO]

Putin discusses successful defense of Kerch Bridge:


​

[Bereta_Eder]

they are not winning because I don't know, justice


I will agree with you that many things the west or th US or bosth have done is reapprochable.


What I am saying is that in the matter of ukraine, a country closer to Greece thanprobably nevada is to california, there is no choice to be made.

Also, you have a mafia thug and you have a democracy

whjat would you choose?

yes it was wrong to support right wing nazi elements in the maiden events

YES it was wrong

but that don't matter know
because the average ukranian didn't care about that

he only cared about being closer to europe.


poland and hungary were given ample the chance and blew it

all of the other eastern europe were given the chnace and nailed it


why shoudln't ukraine have the chance?

because it is next to a dictatorial behemoth?

Greece was once like that. And it won. And europe helped.

What kind of people would we be if we didn;t pass this along

[Bereta_Eder]

I know that this may be hard for you berzerker to accept but the US and the west is ABSOLUTELY 100% right when it comes to Ukraine

[Bereta_Eder]

and also it's very easy to win

[Bereta_Eder]

russia and china are jokes

something to smile about

I mean. come on

[Bereta_Eder]

Also I comprehend that you don't want to provoke a war with russia.

really many of the things you sau, I'd defend them.

I hate noland and the US mingling in Ukraine.


However, leave US (and what noland said, f the EU) I mean leave all that behind

and I accept all of what you say


Can you look at the bigger picture?

You'd have a ukriane that is like bellarussia regime. A european version of north korea.


come on. of course europe is adverse to the aggressive US pushing


I will agree with you on many things

However we are here now,.


The here and now is very clear.

Look at serb. A religious commie/fanatic.

Is that what you want fro Ukriane?

really?

(doesn;t matter what you want because ukranians sure don't. it's rhetorical)

[Bereta_Eder]

people have the right to dream

or maybe I shouldn't speak my mind because you will insinuate I'm being paid by someone.

I'm not being paid to say what I think

I exercise my freedom of speech something that the urkainians under russia would have never ever had.


is ukriane a full flegded democracy?no


but it wouldn't have a chance to be if people were of your opinion.


that ukriane is free of the russian yoke maybe satisies the west

maybe it does,


I only care about the people and what is right

this is right

[Berzerker]

I get accused of being on Putin's payroll so dont attribute that crap to me. Ukrainians dont have freedom of speech under their own govt. F no it aint a full fledged democracy, not even close. It aint right for us to force Ukrainians to live under Nazis or Russians, but we've been arming the Nazis to provoke a war with the Russians. The only people with the right (and thats debatable) to govern the Donbas are the people living there.

[Bereta_Eder]

there are deomractic oriented people everywhere

in iran in iraq in kuwait in palestine in ukraine

unfortunately onmly urkaine satisfies certain western goals.

I'm sorry. I'd wish the same for the other countries as well

But I am not going to gut ukraine for that

[Bereta_Eder]

and again bare in mind that we are talking about real people being invaded killd and raped by the thousands by russians

[Berzerker]

We were killing Ukrainians almost a decade ago, unleashed Nazis on them. You dont think that had anything to do with this war?

[Bereta_Eder]

there is no stable sane person in europe that is not disgusted by that.
that maybe because it is so near,
unfortunately maybe that is human nature to care more about what is near to you

I don't think there is a russian in europe now that says "i'm russian"

[Berzerker]

maybe they should be required to wear a red hammer and sickle

[Bereta_Eder]

so if berzerker you're in france, comment on how nice the eifell tower looks
if you're in greece, bask at the acropolis

if you're in italy, visit some renessance museums

if you're in germany, I don't knowm eat a sausage

but don't share your opinions about the ukranian conflict

[Berzerker]

I dont see those people lining up to be cannon fodder in the war

[Ming]

Russia keeps saying that it's doing this for the "Russians" in Ukraine... but then why are they raping and killing them?

[Berzerker]

I think Russia has shown tremendous restraint, so much Putin gets criticized by his right wing. They've avoided civilians, infrastructure, farmland and ag facilities, and they've been treating POWs far better than Russians are treated. Russia thought a small force would bring Zelensky to the table and it did, Biden chose war. Well, we chose war long ago, but at least Trump was keeping a lid on it.

[-Jrabbit]

THE RUSSIANS HAVE NO RIGHT TO BE INVADING AT ALL.
PERIOD.

[Berzerker]

Do the people of Crimea and the Donbas have the right to defend themselves if Washington and Kiev send Nazis (or anyone else) to kill them? I think they do... and their right of self defense transfers to others willing to help defend them. Given the situation Russia has the 'right' to stop the people attacking eastern Ukrainians and I also believe they've largely limited their effort to that goal.

[Geronimo]

Besides the need to save Ukraine and to ensure that military adventurism especially by a nuclear state is never allowed to directly strengthen that state at the expense of another there is perhaps an even more important reason to stop Russia in Ukraine. In a lot of ways modern Europe is unique. Democracy, tolerance and pluralism is thriving there as nowhere else. The special operation must be stopped to prevent an existential threat to Europe.

[Berzerker]

Besides the need to save Ukraine and to ensure that military adventurism especially by a nuclear state is never allowed to directly strengthen that state at the expense of another there is perhaps an even more important reason to stop Russia in Ukraine. In a lot of ways modern Europe is unique. Democracy, tolerance and pluralism is thriving there as nowhere else. The special operation must be stopped to prevent an existential threat to Europe.

Iraq twice, Ethiopia, Somalia and the Horn of Africa, Afghanistan, Libya, Yemen, Syria, I'm missing a dozen or so more places no doubt. Oh yeah, and Ukraine. Does your definition of modern Europe include Ukraine? I dont see democracy, tolerance or pluralism there. Albeit they are at war and even democracies are liable to effectively declare martial law, but the Ukrainian right wing was terrorizing people long before this. We're the threat to peace, just ask the 3rd world, they're lining up behind China and Russia.