How is your counter-offensive doing...

[Bereta_Eder]

what will Ukraine win?

freedom and a shot at a european more clear future.

maybe it will be a dissapontiment like poland or hungary

but maybe it will be a beacon of hope and success..


you can't live under oppressors it is against human nature (I think)

[Berzerker]

Ukraine was divided about a European future, that right wing coup made the decision for Ukrainians

[Berzerker]

do the oppressors provide a steady paycheck?

[Bereta_Eder]

what do you mean?


that the russians mightg pay a few rubles and the ukranians should shut up?

[Berzerker]

No, I mean people are willing to be oppressed (or oppress) if it pays

[pchang]

That explains Serb, but what about you?

[Bereta_Eder]

• • Ukraine was divided about a European future, that right wing coup made the decision for Ukrainians

ask the average ukranian. russia or europe?


they would freakin laugh at your face


hell ask a russian


a coup yeah,,, a coup against a dictator is not a coup

​

[Bereta_Eder]

also bare in mind that you arte defending a regime that has killed raped and what not an entire innocent peoples.


future russians will hiude their identity much like the germans after ww2....

I don't think you realize what you are trying to defend

[Berzerker]

also the west doesn;t want regime change
I think it has given up on the whole charade. it wants containment pure and simple


you have eaten up a lot of russian propaganda. some of what you believe is true but you I am afaird inadveringly support some very sinister going ons


the average ukrainian is entitled to a hope for a democratic free more prosperus future. it is his right. the nazi phantasm that putin puts forth is a charade.

noone in their serious mind believe it

even the most hardened cynics do not swallow putin's propagand

Containment doesn't work anymore because the rest of the world is growing tired of our cold war and the rise of China gives them an option. The problem is we'd like to pull Russia away from China but western capitalists dont want to compete with Russian resources and Putin is no Yeltsin (or is it Yeltzin?). If we cant get those resources we sure dont want Russia selling them to our allies.

Watch what happens to Ukraine, Black Rock et al will move in and make even more $$$ off our taxes as we rebuild and subsidize Ukraine. It's a rabbit hole where crooks can launder the money they steal from the victims and the people arming Nazis... Sorry, freedom fighters. When the dust settles Ukraine will be looted.

Do the people of Crimea and the Donbas have that right? Tell them Nazis are just Putin's propaganda.

https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opinion/ukraine-has-nazi-problem-vladimir-putin-s-denazification-claim-war-ncna1290946

"There is also no evidence of recent mass killings or ethnic purges taking place in Ukraine."

Recent... Well, other than the 8 year war in the Donbas. The purges (cultural) happened after the coup, people learned to keep quiet and avoid angering the right wing. This notion that Ukraine is a democracy is laughable, even the Biden administration says Ukraine cant join Nato for being undemocratic.

"But even though Putin is engaging in propaganda, it’s also true that Ukraine has a genuine Nazi problem — both past and present. "

Thats from NBC, neocon central.

"it would be a dangerous oversight to deny Ukraine’s antisemitic history and collaboration with Hitler’s Nazis, as well as the latter-day embrace of neo-Nazi factions in some quarters."

What quarters exactly? The people behind the coup, purges and war on protesters? Sorry, thats not a quarter, thats the whole shebang. The other quarters learned years ago to avoid pissing off right wing nationalists. Kinda strange how we're tearing down statues of Confederates and assorted un'woke' historical men while we arm people putting up statues to Ukrainian Nazis who slaughtered Jews. But Zelensky!!!

[Bereta_Eder]

I've told you from the very beggining that some of what you believe is true,.

yes there were nazis amongst those who overthrew the former ukranian leader. yes there were nazis in the azov batallion

it doens't matter

because the vast bulk of ukranian peoples are just people like you and me that deserve a shot at being better at not being tied down to dictatorhsips

and they are not nazis. not even in the slightest.

also ukraine is not iraq. iut is situated in the backyard of europe. the idea is to build lonmg lasting democratic instututions. not pilalge the country.


listen,

russia is run by a mafia. and a mafia can never quit

if you're a mafiozo you can't say I go to retirement. they'd kill you.

not a single soul (unless heavily perturtbated) in europe would not thinkt hat russia is just a mafia,

and yeah maybe if ukraine was in the middle of the middle east things would be different

but it is right in the bossom of europe.

things are very. VERY different here


the choice is simple. democracy and freedom and wealth

or russia


noone, noone, chooses russia

[Berzerker]

• • Ukraine was divided about a European future, that right wing coup made the decision for Ukrainians

ask the average ukranian. russia or europe?


they would freakin laugh at your face


hell ask a russian


a coup yeah,,, a coup against a dictator is not a coup

​

Depends on where you're asking people, in 2013-14 Ukraine was divided on Maidan with western Ukraine more in favor and eastern Ukraine more opposed. That was before the coup and takeover by the Ukrainian right wing. Not surprisingly eastern Ukrainians have not grown more fond of Kiev, so does Ukrainian victory mean we will force them to live under the Nazis? No dictators ever lost power in a coup? The guy was elected and he was up for re-election and offered to move the next election up on the calendar in response to protests.

[Bereta_Eder]

you're talking about things that didn't happen or even of they happened they no longer matter

if you don't believe me, would you believe the head of the wanger group? because he has said on camera that the so called oppression of eastern ukraine was a lie


I do think you have to see the big picture, and that is that the biggets country in europe after france wants to be part of europe.

noone in their mind would choose russia.


let me tell you a secret not even russians do but if they say it out loud they'd jail them


it is one thing to be wary of the west's dirty triclsd a,mongt the years and quite another to support something that is utterly evil and disgusting

[Bereta_Eder]

the murderous head of the wagner group on camera said that there was no oppression of eastern ukraine

I say there was! really I do. I say that therer were problems with language rights etc

that is not nazism

and again maybe nazism existyed in the azov batallion like it existed int he russian wagner group


those fringe criminal exceptions donm't matter to the vast millions of orinary people that were given a very clear chance to join the prosperous democratic west.

iraq couldn't do it because of location/culture/circumstances

Ukraine potentially can

and that is all that matters

[Bereta_Eder]

greece is filled with ukranians.
greece's revolution against the ottomans was planned in ukraine by greek-ukranians.


I do know those people

you don.t

[Berzerker]

What happened to that universal human desire for freedom and self govt? How do those Ukrainians feel about Crimeans and eastern Ukrainians who dont want to be ruled by a right wing nationalist govt in place of the govt they elected?

[Bereta_Eder]

Again. I'm not saying you're wrong and that everything you say is propaganda.

you have a lot of valid points, many stand.

but you have tio see the larger picture. the end game

and then it becomes clear.

and I'ma moderate.

if you were taling to my ukranian friend he'd probably bite your head off. and he is the furthest from a nazi there is

[Bereta_Eder]

and he IS from eastern ukriane

[Bereta_Eder]

if you were talking to him, he'd see in you a defender of the awswitz nazis, and he'd be, very right.

My distance is only justified by my different ethnicity.

but really.

go to ukraine, or anywhere in europe with ukrainians and say these things.

and see what happens

[Bereta_Eder]

imagine you're in san fransciso and someone came and murdered and raped all your family.

and then a guy named berzerker came in and said, hey you deserve it becuase you were nazis.

pretty much sums it up

realize you're dealing with real people that are next door and have seen their families killed and raped by russian thugs

your theories matter very,very little

[Berzerker]

Azov murdered Ukrainians for protesting the coup and my country helped so Russia would have a war on it's border, that isn't theory.