Will Trump be found innocent or quilty? Not what you wish but for real.

[Berzerker]

No, I can believe the video of him taking part in the insurrection/coup, and so he is a MAGA tried and true.

Many of those people pursuing the insurrectionists are Republican, just not Trumpists (even though some probably voted for Trump).

JM

If you can believe that then are you suspicious by how he made the FBI's wanted list for Jan 6 and was later removed notwithstanding the 'alibi'? All of the Trumpists I've seen have called for the prosecution of rioters, their gripes are about the persecution of people who wandered around after rioters broke in and cops gave up and the govt's actions in response. Somebody in authority didn't want security in the way and it wasn't Trump. Would that qualify as aiding and abetting a coup? Just spitballin here, but if Pelosi was in charge of security and she conspired with others to ensure a successful breach of the capital could she be charged with a coup or insurrection?

[Ming]

A BIG IF. with absolutely NO EVIDENCE to support it.
Just more misdirection on your part.

Remember the actual facts.
Trump told people to come to Washington
Trump told people total lies about the election being stolen
Then he sent them down to the Capital.
Those are the actual facts.
EVERY THING else that you are saying is just opinions and theory.
Again, let us know when you have some actual facts.

[Berzerker]

Hey, some people in the US also have a good grip on realty, but they also think that destroying the country a little bit is better than the democrats winning.

Democrats had over 500 riots to win the election

[Ming]

Democrats had over 500 riots to win the election

They won the election because of Trump, the worst candidate since Hilary.

[Jon Miller]

You left out parts of the story.

Epps made the FBI's wanted list. Epps went and talked to the FBI. Epps was removed from the wanted list (but is charged). It isn't some mystery why Epps was removed from the wanted list, it was because the FBI got him.

If you can believe that then are you suspicious by how he made the FBI's wanted list for Jan 6 and was later removed notwithstanding the 'alibi'? All of the Trumpists I've seen have called for the prosecution of rioters, their gripes are about the persecution of people who wandered around after rioters broke in and cops gave up and the govt's actions in response. Somebody in authority didn't want security in the way and it wasn't Trump. Would that qualify as aiding and abetting a coup? Just spitballin here, but if Pelosi was in charge of security and she conspired with others to ensure a successful breach of the capital could she be charged with a coup or insurrection?

Pelosi wasn't in charge of security, The Capital Police and Sergeant of Arms were primarily in charge with security. Both of them mis-represented the security situation to the House (which includes Pelosi), and were forced to resign.

Trump isn't being indicted for setting up the Capital Police and so on to enable his supporters to take the Capital. As far as I know, the only accusation he is possible facing (and he hasn't been indicted of it) is that he didn't order the National Guard in when it was needed and everyone (Pence, National Guard, House, etc) were asking for them to go in. It was actually his administration, not Trump himself, who actually ordered the National Guard in.

You seem to be confused about what Trump is even being accused of, much less what he has been indicted of.

What Trump is indicted for for trying to get a false set of electors selected, and so subverting peoples votes (as well as the other conspiracy parts). He is accused of sending the insurrectionists to the Capital to disrupt the proceedings, but it isn't clear to me at this moment if he is indicted about that. He is also accused of, and was impeached for, but hasn't been indicted for, not holding up his duty to defend the Constitution and Capital after the insurrectionists invaded the capital build. He was 'unreachable' in front of a TV at a party.

JM

[Berzerker]

https://youtu.be/K5iP9kzcjJ4

those dirty rotten election deniers aided and abetted the Jan 6 riot

[Jon Miller]

Some people on the far left did accuse Trump of setting up the Capitol Police and others to enable the Capitol to be taken. I have not heard that accusation outside of the Far Left, and I have never heard that it was a serious accusation being considered by any investigator or special counsel or prosecutor or anyone of the sort.

Your conspiracy that Pelosi manipulated Trump to tell his supporters to go down to the Capitol while manipulating the Capitol Police/Security to not provide proper security so that insurrectionists and rioters, many of whom said they wanted to kill/hurt her, could take the Capitol and get close to doing so is pure insanity.

JM

[Jon Miller]

https://youtu.be/K5iP9kzcjJ4

those dirty rotten election deniers aided and abetted the Jan 6 riot

Lying about elections isn't what Trump is being charged with. Trump is being charged with the actions he took. The reason why we maintain Trump is still dangerous is because not only was he a bad president at putting in his policies and a bad president in trying to hurt parts of the US that didn't vote for him and a bad president in crisis and I could go on (his foreign policy!), but because of his actions both between November and January in 2021 and his words/statements since that he would do it even better the next time.

You don't send Hitler to jail for his actions to try to subvert the country and then let him to try again. Obviously the next time he succeeded.

That is why our constitution has the 14th amendment, section 3. Once he has been convicted of trying to subvert our country, he won't be able to try again. Arguably, state officials should already take action based on the impeachment but obviously a conviction would be better.

And we don't want someone following Trump's actions to succeed who isn't Trump either. Which is another reason why Justice must be pursued and not ignored because "He is rich", "He is powerful", "Lot's of people would be upset", "He has a cult".

JM

[Jon Miller]

https://www.economist.com/united-states/2023/08/10/how-strong-is-trumps-defence-in-the-election-stealing-case

But the contest to shape public opinion began on August 1st after Jack Smith, the special counsel, set out four charges. With help from conspirators making false claims of election fraud, Mr Smith alleges, Mr Trump pushed state officials to replace legitimate electors with fraudulent ones, organised fake electors in seven states, sought help from the Department of Justice (doj) and pressed Mike Pence, his vice-president, to alter the results on January 6th 2021.​

These are actions, not speech. Notice that not included in the actions is that Trump conspired to compromise the security forces.

JM

[Jon Miller]

Also note that Trump is not being indicted or accused of anything related to the actual court cases that he filed about the election.

JM

[Ming]

Yes... all of his fake election claims he filed... NADA.
But that's going to happen when you have no evidence and just make crap up.
Yet he still claims he won...

[Uncle Sparky]

With the 10 new charges from the Georgia grand jury, Trump now faces a total of 91 felony charges, including RICO violations. Odds are, he'll be convicted of a few of them.

[Bereta_Eder]

although I feel somehow an affinity for poor stupid working class deluded fools, I don't know why maybe it's my roots showing, hence I feel like I understand trumpists, I want trump taken out of the mpicture because he's a danger to Greece, Europe and the world order and decmocracy

these are facts

and that's despite the warmongering that some other candidates have that he doesn't.

his way though would lead to the mothership of wars

[Berzerker]

https://youtu.be/q0WqaK4jOY0

Nancy Pelosi was in charge of security and it took 71 minutes to get her permission for the Natl Guard

She likened it to Pearl Harbor and 9/11

Apparently the location of Trump's rally was 40 minutes away from the capital so our Uber-MAGA poster boy Ray Epps didn't even listen to his speech, he was already at the capital orchestrating the riot.

[Ming]

Blah blah blah... he and everybody else was there because Trump told them all to come and fight the mythical steal.
Ray was a bit player at best.