Will Trump be found innocent or quilty? Not what you wish but for real.

[Ming]

what law did he break to open Crossfire Hurricane and the Fisa spying program on Page?

that was the witch hunt

EVERY TIME HE GETS INDICTED where there is REAL EVIDENCE of his illegal activities, he calls it a Witch Hunt.

[Berzerker]

The effort to prevent him from running again has been ongoing for years... Remember the FBI man Strzok, we got a plan. They wouldn't be doing this if he went away nor would they do it to Democrats and Republicans in good standing, ie neocons.

[PLATO]

EVERY TIME HE GETS INDICTED where there is REAL EVIDENCE of his illegal activities, he calls it a Witch Hunt.

This is why the trials (or more specifically the Jan 6 trial) should be televised start to finish. It is easy to say "witch hunt" when you don't have the facts, but when confronted with the evidence only the hard core MAGA people will continue to deny it.

[Ming]

Evidence doesn't seem to matter to the core Maga crowd. All they do is believe EVERY WORD that Trump utters.
Again, it's no surprise that Trump appeals more to the lesser educated.

[Berzerker]

This is why the trials (or more specifically the Jan 6 trial) should be televised start to finish. It is easy to say "witch hunt" when you don't have the facts, but when confronted with the evidence only the hard core MAGA people will continue to deny it.

Would we get to see the video from the day? No, we dont get to see the evidence. Not even the accused got to see the evidence. And our own news media howled when McCarthy gave Tucker Carlson access to some video (ofc they had a tantrum when Musk let Matt Taibbi look at censorship). Corporate 'news' is state propaganda - fascists run the country and we've killed millions the last ~3 decades.

The witch hunt was Russiagate but it has become Trump's go to for describing the establishment's effort to keep him out of office. Jan 6 is part of it. Over 500 BLM riots before the election were portrayed as a righteous cause, 1 MAGA riot in response is the end of the country.

I saw some video before it disappeared. It showed 2 uniform cops guarding a locked side door. A man dressed like a protester walked up and told the cops to stand down and he tried to open the door. The 2 cops were not convinced and interfered so a 2nd man dressed like a protester walked up and told the cops to back off and they did and protesters were let in. Then I saw video of Buffalo Hat walking around with a police escort, if he was violating the law why didn't they arrest him on the spot... or at least escorted him out of the building. Then we have the matter of pipe bombs... and the FBI's habit of making fake ones to entrap people. Whatever happened to that investigation?

How can you trust them?

[-Jrabbit]

Trump's fantasy that this is all just to keep him out of office in 2024 is hilarious. It's just his spin, because narcissists believe it's all about them. Either he's POTUS or running for POTUS, and in Trump's world, he seems to believe that means he can never be dragged through the court system. The fed indictments are just simple accountability for actions taken. It'll be very interesting to see the actual evidence.

[Berzerker]

Trump will end their war in Ukraine, thats why they hate him. All that work, years, decades to topple Russia in pursuit of US hegemony and he comes along and wants better relations, how dare he! And ofc this is to keep him out of office, if he had left the scene after losing this wouldn't be happening.

[-Jrabbit]

Your continuing belief that Donald Trump cares at all about anything other than personal enrichment and avoiding accountability is astonishing.
Your willingness to appease a monster like Putin is downright dangerous.

[Berzerker]

Not sure about in the courts of law, but in historiography it'll widely be seen as an attempted coup and Trump will be found guilty as sin.

FWIW, pre-Trump I'd be viewed as a Republican sympathetic furriner. I loved Trump for a long time. He and the gong show on most all sides were hilarious. The laughing stopped abruptly Jan 6.

Why didn't Pelosi protect the capital and why didn't the rioters bring guns if it was a coup?

[Uncle Sparky]

They didn't bring guns because guns are not allowed at or near Donald J Trump rallies. They went directly from his pep talk to overthrow the government. Remember the cel phone coverage, where a couple of peaceful protesters try to decide whether or not to shoot a police officer they had knocked down with his own gun?

[Berzerker]

Are they allowed for coups at the capital? Yeah, overthrow the govt with Buffalo Hat leading the charge

[Ming]

Why didn't Pelosi protect the capital and why didn't the rioters bring guns if it was a coup?

Why didn't Trump protect the capital? Oh, that's right he was enjoying himself watching it unfold on TV while Pelosi and others were hiding from the mob he asked to come to Washington.
People died and many were injured. But go ahead and call it a peaceful protest.

[Berzerker]

Wasn't his job, Pelosi was in charge of security... and I think Nancy was quite happy to hide. I didn't call it peaceful, I called it a riot. A cop killed a woman (rewarded for saving democracy) and 3-4 people died from physical exertion or stress w/wo medical or drug complications. A cop died later from a stroke or something and 1-2 more allegedly committed suicide.

[Berzerker]

She was in charge of security, not Trump.

[Uncle Sparky]

Pelosi was leading the nation. Trump was a lame duck trying to overthrow her. And overthrow Pence, And overthrow the American voters. Trump should be dictator for life. He and Putin should divide the world, but leave room for Kim Jong Un, Trump's other good buddy.

[Berzerker]

Pelosi didn't protect the capital because she wanted a MAGA riot to discredit Trump and the movement. 500 BLM riots happened before the election and Nancy's response was limited to "people do things". Rioting to win an election or rioting to overturn an election, both parties suck.

[Ming]

Yep... all those needless deaths because Trump called his mob to the Capital.

[Berzerker]

Trump told his supporters to protest, Ray Epps told them to riot

[-Jrabbit]

Trump had instant access to direct his forces by TV, text, and social media.
Trump gathered that crowd, told them where to go and to "fight like hell."
Ray Epps was just one dude in that crowd.

[Berzerker]

According to Ray and the video evidence he was busy issuing instructions orchestrating the initial breach of barricades, the crowd was still wandering in from Trump's rally.

[N35t0r]

The speaker of the house is in charge of DC police?

[Ming]

One more time Berz... This happened because Trump told people to come to Washington... they did. He told them to march down to the capital... they did.
It was going to happen if Epps was there or not. Epps was just another Trump cultist.
Thanks to Trump, people died and were injured. Those are the facts.

[Donegeal]

I'd estimate there is more actual evidence (video, audio, documents, self admissions, and first hand witnesses (although this is much less important)) to the felonies trump is accused of than 90% of the cases I've see get convictions; and I have long since lost count of how many of those I've been involved with.

[Berzerker]

The speaker of the house is in charge of DC police?

As the chief law enforcement officer of the House, the sergeant at arms is responsible for security in the House wing of the United States Capitol, the House office buildings, and on adjacent grounds. Under the direction of the speaker of the House or other presiding officer, the sergeant at arms plays an integral role in maintaining order and decorum in the House chamber.

The sergeant at arms is also responsible for ensuring the safety and security of members of Congress, the congressional staff, visiting dignitaries, and tourists.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sergeant_at_Arms_of_the_United_States_House_of_Representatives​

[Jon Miller]

I am not saying that the Sergeant of Arms doesn't have any fault here. I believe that he wasn't selected by Pelosi and worked directly with the other counterparts more than he worked with the House leadership. I think it likely he did have some fault, which is why he got sacked. But keeping order in the capital and restoring order int he capital required far more people than the Sergeant of Arms had available. And some of these, like the generals, were not brought in due to direction from the Trump administration.

This was covered in the January 6 hearings.

JM

[Berzerker]

Please... the hearing was a cover up... Pelosi removed the only people on the committee who would be asking about her security 'failure'

[Jon Miller]

Some links:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2021/12/15/no-trump-did-not-order-10000-troops-secure-capitol-jan-6/

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/07/21/us/politics/national-guard-january-6-riot.html

https://www.npr.org/2021/01/15/956842958/what-we-know-so-far-a-timeline-of-security-at-the-capitol-on-january-6

Note that Paul Irving was pressed to resign, and some have said is partially at fault. He was selected by a Republican Speaker and remained after Pelosi became speaker. Note that Walker, who had done his best (as leader of the DC National Guard) to protect the capital and was selected to replace Irving, was removed when McCarthy became Speaker.

Police Chief Sund also resigned, and some have said he was also partially at fault. It was Sund and Irving who told the House that everything was under control on January 6.

JM

[Berzerker]

was Pelosi partially at fault or just the people under her? And Wapo, NYT and NPR talking about her cover up hearings need corroboration.