Will Trump be found innocent or quilty? Not what you wish but for real.

[SlowwHand]

Or do you think the founding fathers didn't know that the English would hang them if they lost?

It's also cute that you equate Jan 6th with the founding fathers lol.

The Constitution, which every military member swears to defend against foreign AND domestic.

[Jon Miller]

There was a reason the military was opposed to January 6 and refused to take part in the soft coup.

https://www.cnn.com/2021/07/14/politics/donald-trump-election-coup-new-book-excerpt/index.html

https://www.thedailybeast.com/it-took-a-near-coup-from-the-military-to-stop-trumps-coup

https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2022/08/15/inside-the-war-between-trump-and-his-generals

At the end of the meeting with his security chiefs, the President pulled Miller aside and asked him if he was ready for the upcoming January 6th protest. “It’s going to be a big deal,” Milley heard Trump tell Miller. “You’ve got enough people to make sure it’s safe for my people, right?” Miller assured him he did. This was the last time that Milley would ever see Trump.

On January 6th, Milley was in his office at the Pentagon meeting with Christine Wormuth, the lead Biden transition official for the Defense Department. In the weeks since the election, Milley had started displaying four networks at once on a large monitor across from the round table where he and Wormuth sat: CNN and Fox News, as well as the small pro-Trump outlets Newsmax and One America News Network, which had been airing election disinformation that even Fox would not broadcast. “You’ve got to know what the enemy is up to,” Milley had joked when Wormuth noticed his viewing habits at one of their meetings.

Milley and Wormuth that day were supposed to discuss the Pentagon’s plans to draw down U.S. troops in Afghanistan, as well as the Biden team’s hopes to mobilize large-scale covid vaccination sites around the country. But, as they realized in horror what was transpiring on the screen in front of them, Milley was summoned to an urgent meeting with Miller and Ryan McCarthy, the Secretary of the Army. They had not landed the plane, after all. The plane was crashing.

Milley entered the Defense Secretary’s office at 2:30 p.m., and they discussed deploying the D.C. National Guard and mobilizing National Guard units from nearby states and federal agents under the umbrella of the Justice Department. Miller issued an order at 3:04 p.m. to send in the D.C. Guard.

But it was too late to prevent the humiliation: Congress had been overwhelmed by a mob of election deniers, white-supremacist militia members, conspiracy theorists, and Trump loyalists. Milley worried that this truly was Trump’s “Reichstag moment,” the crisis that would allow the President to invoke martial law and maintain his grip on power.

From the secure facility at Fort McNair, where they had been brought by their protective details, congressional leaders called on the Pentagon to send forces to the Capitol immediately. Nancy Pelosi and Chuck Schumer were suspicious of Miller: Whose side was this unknown Trump appointee on? Milley tried to reassure the Democratic leadership that the uniformed military was on the case, and not there to do Trump’s bidding. The Guard, he told them, was coming.

It was already after three-thirty by then, however, and the congressional leaders were furious that it was taking so long. They also spoke with Mike Pence, who offered to call the Pentagon as well. He reached Miller around 4 p.m., with Milley still in his office listening in. “Clear the Capitol,” Pence ordered.

Although it was the Vice-President who was seeking to defend the Capitol, Meadows wanted to pretend that Trump was the one taking action. He called Milley, telling him, “We have to kill the narrative that the Vice-President is making all the decisions. We need to establish the narrative that the President is still in charge.” Milley later dismissed Meadows, whose spokesperson denied Milley’s account, as playing “politics, politics, politics.”

The Guard finally arrived at the Capitol by 5:40 p.m., “sprint speed” for the military, as Milley would put it, but not nearly fast enough for some members of Congress, who would spend months investigating why it took so long. By 7 p.m., a perimeter had been set up outside the Capitol, and F.B.I. and A.T.F. agents were going door to door in the Capitol’s many hideaways and narrow corridors, searching for any remaining rioters.

That night, waiting for Congress to return and formally ratify Trump’s electoral defeat, Milley called one of his contacts on the Biden team. He explained that he had spoken with Meadows and Pat Cipollone at the White House, and that he had been on the phone with Pence and the congressional leaders as well. But Milley never heard from the Commander-in-Chief, on a day when the Capitol was overrun by a hostile force for the first time since the War of 1812. Trump, he said, was both “shameful” and “complicit.”

https://www.militarytimes.com/news/your-military/2021/07/15/top-generals-planned-to-resign-en-masse-if-trump-refused-to-leave-office-reports/

I am thankful to the military and Vice-President Pence for those first weeks in 2021.

JM

[Berzerker]

This is all based on whether you believe the storming was illegal or not.

the storming was illegal, but the motive was the belief in a stolen election

the deep state working over time to help Joe and drive Trump from office is glaring evidence it was stolen

[Berzerker]

Googled exactly that and first hit was a NYT article that led with:

"Recordings released to defense lawyers directly challenge assertions by prominent Republicans that an Arizona man named Ray Epps was a federal informant and helped start the Capitol riot."

Second hit from Washington Post contained this:

"Footage of him talking to a rioter who was one of the first to overturn a barrier has also been elevated as evidence of his role, but he and that other rioter both testified under oath that Epps sought to defuse, not instigate, events."

Third hit from CBS news had a Jan 6 committee staffer saying this:

"'I would just defend the facts. And the facts are that there's still absolutely zero evidence that Ray Epps was a federal agent, or a federal provocateur, or had any kind of contact with the FBI or any other federal agencies.'"


I guess you have a different google from the rest of us?

The first 3 hits show Democrats defending Epps and I imagine a few pages followed. So how does that prove Democrats haven't been defending him? What recording shows Epps didn't help start the riot? The Wapo quote is hilarious, Epps whispered into the ear of a man 1-2 seconds before that same man charges thru the barrier with Epps running right behind him and the front line like a RB. So what was he diffusing? Was he chasing the guy he just told to relax trying to stop him? What a joke. See, thats one of those lies by omission - Epps told the guy to leave the cops alone (thats what I heard), but they were going in and he was caught conspiring with that man. Same with the other guy they caught on film, Epps told him to leave a weapon behind when they go in or he could get shot by the cops. A Jan 6 committee staffer lol. Pelosi removed anyone from the committee willing to ask embarrassing questions.

Here's the evidence I've seen: Epps orchestrated a riot and not only admitted it, he instructed people to enter the building and he was present at the initial breach point issuing instructions to at least 2 'rioters'. Now that by itself doesn't prove he's a fed although his audience the night of Jan 5th sure thought he was a fed, what is especially incriminating is A) the zeal with which the "insurrectionists" were hunted down and prosecuted, and B) the deep state defending him when the evidence of his guilt is staring everyone in the face. A one-eyed fat man got 18 years for doing less.

[PLATO]

The first 3 hits show Democrats defending Epps and I imagine a few pages followed. So how does that prove Democrats haven't been defending him?

There were no Democrats named in any of the hits I quoted. If there was a democrat defending him then that obviously would be a top hit. Not there.

This is typical of you and I did this just to show you what you do. You took your belief and twisted the facts to align with it.

The fact is that there are no democrats on record that I can find supporting Epps. You have been asked repeatedly to produce yet you continually don't. If fact, when challenged above you specifically refused.

You have zero credibility on this subject. Provide some actual specific evidence if you can. If not STFU

[Ming]

Again Berz... just a theory/opinion based on no actual facts. Epps was just one of many people involved. He was just another MAGA member egging people on.
Let us know when you come up with any real proof besides, your opinion or what you think you saw.

And also, there is NO GLARING EVIDENCE that the election was stolen. Trump lost, and he lost big.
He lost all on his own. The Democrats didn't have to do anything because Trump was that bad.
It's like when Hilary lost. A dead person could have beat her since she was the absolute worst candidate... total pond scum.
And then the same happened to Trump once people got to see more of him when he was president. His act gets pretty old unless you are one of his cult members.

[Berzerker]

He was coordinating with people breaching the barricade starting the riot

the glaring evidence is the FBI and various govt agencies censoring news stories and lying about evidence of Biden's corruption

[Berzerker]

There were no Democrats named in any of the hits I quoted. If there was a democrat defending him then that obviously would be a top hit. Not there.

This is typical of you and I did this just to show you what you do. You took your belief and twisted the facts to align with it.

The fact is that there are no democrats on record that I can find supporting Epps. You have been asked repeatedly to produce yet you continually don't. If fact, when challenged above you specifically refused.

You have zero credibility on this subject. Provide some actual specific evidence if you can. If not STFU

The NYT, Wapo and CBS aint Democrats? How about the Jan 6 committee staffer your link quoted?

[Ming]

Gee... since there isn't really any evidence, they are just being rationale and factual.
And they aren't defending him, they are defending the idea that the DEMS or deep state were responsible for Jan 6.
The facts here are really clear. Trump told people to come to Washington, and they did because HE TOLD THEM TO COME.
He then continued to tell the big lie that he actually won, which he had no evidence of, and was told that he had lost.
He riled them up and set them marching on the capital.
The crowd didn't need any help from some supposed deep state or Democrats. Trump and the Maga crowd did that all on their own.

But feel to blame it all on some fantasy, opinion or theory that is supported by NO PROOF.
The facts are clear. But if you don't want to actually look at them...

[Berzerker]

All those Democrats scouring the countryside in pursuit of those Trump traitors have a special place in their hearts for dear old Ray. You cant believe all that video of him provoking the insurrection slash coup, he really is MAGA tried and true.

[Ming]

As I suspected... No actual proof. Just your opinion.

[Jon Miller]

All those Democrats scouring the countryside in pursuit of those Trump traitors have a special place in their hearts for dear old Ray. You cant believe all that video of him provoking the insurrection slash coup, he really is MAGA tried and true.

No, I can believe the video of him taking part in the insurrection/coup, and so he is a MAGA tried and true.

Many of those people pursuing the insurrectionists are Republican, just not Trumpists (even though some probably voted for Trump).

JM

[N35t0r]

I like that Berz's argument is basically "he's not useless so he can't possibly be maga".

[N35t0r]

Hey, some people in the US also have a good grip on realty, but they also think that destroying the country a little bit is better than the democrats winning.

[Berzerker]

The people with a grip on reality are leaving blue states for red states

[PLATO]

Hey, some people in the US also have a good grip on realty, but they also think that destroying the country a little bit is better than the democrats winning.

This is really an insightful post. I think there is much truth here.

[Berzerker]

your avatar called, he wants his reputation back