Politics Thread

[Berzerker]

Trump was fined close to $1/2 billion for over-stating property values. My local government over-states the value of my property by ~25% every year for taxes.

[Ming]

There you go defending a criminal again... Fraud is fraud. He should be held accountable for his crimes.
But I guess in your world, it's OK, since he's above the law.

[Berzerker]

Is it Letitia James who prosecuted Trump out in NYC? She campaigned on nailing Trump, she was leading "lock him up" chants at her rallies along with "too male, too pale, too stale" - sexism and racism from NY's top prosecutor. Then she lied about campaigning to get him.

Meanwhile my state has passed veto proof legislation requiring porn sites to verify age. Apparently a court has already ruled it legal in a few other states but this is a far step from looking at a stranger's face at a counter to know they're old enough to buy a Playboy. Identity theft and blackmail will increase and I'm not sure how the higher courts will deal with the free speech issue or interstate commerce clause giving Congress that power. It was Congress that had to allow the states to collect taxes for internet sales that gave Amazon such an advantage.

[Berzerker]

There you go defending a criminal again... Fraud is fraud. He should be held accountable for his crimes.
But I guess in your world, it's OK, since he's above the law.

But is it fraud? Seems commonplace. Who lost money? Loans were made and paid off. The people making the loans evaluated the worth of Trump's property when negotiating the terms. This isn't about Trump, this is a political prosecution selectively targeting him. Its like a traffic cop watching a convoy of cars all moving at the same speed and pulling over the car with a MAGA sticker... or the black motorist.

[-Jrabbit]

"Everybody does it" is not a defense.

And deliberately misrepresenting the value of a property to get a better loan rate -- just like the flip side, misrepresenting that same property's value to get lower property taxes -- is fraud.

[Berzerker]

The state routinely misrepresents property values to increase taxes and neither they or the banks loaning Trump money depend on his assessments. If the banks and Trump have a disagreement thats between them and a civil court. If Trump owes taxes he can pay them just like Hunter and the Big Guy while the rest of us watch 2 evils playing king of the moral high ground. Democrats howled when Trump told Ukraine to investigate Biden but now they cheer selective political prosecutions. Lock them both up

[Ming]

Yes it's FRAUD. And that is what an actual court CONVICTED him of.
But again... you defend a criminal. But like the rest of the maga crowd and him, you believe laws don't apply to him.
You make excuses, use bad examples and believe his lies... while ignoring that he was actually convicted and now has to pay the penalty, just like everybody else that has been convicted of FRAUD.

[Berzerker]

Then why didn't the victims sue?

[Ming]

Still defending him... A court of law convicted him.
He is NOT above the law.

[Geronimo]

to be fair, a criminal court convicting anybody through political motivation would be a very serious scenario indeed.

[Berzerker]

Nicolle Wallace at MSNBC was outraged her employer would hire that lying election denier Ronna McDaniel

Nicolle Wallace was a spokeswoman for George Bush's WH during his wars following 9/11

"I need a time machine to travel back to 2006 and tell Dems: less than 20 years from now, the spokeswoman for Bush and Cheney will be a hero and icon to American liberals without having changed a single one of her views, and will deliver popular sermons on the sanctity of Truth:" - Glenn Greenwald

I don't know if that's true, was she pro-life back then? Becoming pro-choice is a big plus.

[Berzerker]

Jon Stewart railed against Trump for paying lower taxes on property based on low assessments. Stewart sold his NYC duplex for $17.5m while the market price was $1.8m and tax assessment of $840k

[Berzerker]

$748k was the amount Stewart paid on property taxes

[Ming]

Yawn...
Trump was convicted. FACT
I see you are still making excuses for him, while blaming all the worlds problems on Biden.
Do you have a "cute/childish" nickname for Trump, or is that only for Biden?

[Geronimo]

It's worth noting that the maga crowd believes all of Trump lies and spreads them on social media.

I would go so far as to say that this is how I define "the maga crowd".

[Berzerker]

Gov Greg Abbott (R-Tex) signed an executive order requiring institutions of higher education review their free speech codes and increase punishments for antisemitic comments

you can still call Palestinians names and endorse genocide

[Dauphin]

But is it fraud? Seems commonplace. Who lost money? Loans were made and paid off. The people making the loans evaluated the worth of Trump's property when negotiating the terms. This isn't about Trump, this is a political prosecution selectively targeting him. Its like a traffic cop watching a convoy of cars all moving at the same speed and pulling over the car with a MAGA sticker... or the black motorist.

Loans were provided at beneficial rates due to false valuations, assertions and pledges that understated the credit risk and upon which lenders explicitly relied upon. The rate of return they should have gained from the loans was below what it ought to have been. It is irrelevant that there was no default.

It is incorrect to state that 'everybody' does it. Valuations are subjective certainly, but where it is egregious (as in this case), it should be, and is, rightfully pursued.

Check the DoJ press releases and you'll see plenty of criminal cases resulting from fraudulent valuations. Usually as part of a conspiracy between assessors and property owners. In Trump's case he was doing self-valuations, and pursued civilly (which is harder to track and compare as it is usual less transparent and less high profile than similar criminal cases).

[BeBMan]

Isn't it fundamentally unfair to rely on facts and reason in this thread??? Next someone will ask if he can use logic

[Berzerker]

What facts? The 1st sentence begins with the assumption people making loans relied on Trump to decide what his property is worth.

Tbf to Jon Stewart I imagine his abode brought a nice profit just because he lived there. But still, a property assessed for taxes at 800k+ with a market value of 1.8m sells twice for 17.5m and then 13.5m sounds like a very sweet deal for Jon. I wonder if the new owner had to pay property taxes for a house that cost $17.5m or did they argue for the old assessment Jon had?

[-Jrabbit]

Not comparable. Stewart's was the one-time private sale of an apartment; pretty sure the capitalists will confirm that Jon can -- and should -- sell his home for the highest price that the market will bear. OTOH, Trump's court case is about his company's business model being based on routinely misrepresenting the market value of commercial properties, both owned and under development, to gain undeservedly better loan terms and lower taxes.

Fun fact: tax assessment valuations have nothing to do with retail value of a property.

I'm always amused by the timing of these irrelevant "whatabout" stories trying to distract attention away from Trump's latest legal woes.

[Ming]

Gee... somebody bought his place for more than some claimed it was worth. Good for him.
This in NO WAY compares to Trumps long term and systematic fraud.
But feel free to be outraged while ignoring your hero's fraud.
It's not even close...

[Berzerker]

Jon Stewart should have kept quiet lol... Did Trump make such a profit like that on properties assessed under a million?

He probably deals in more valuable properties.

[-Jrabbit]

From Jon Stewart on X:

“OMG!! I've been caught doing something not remotely similar to Trump! I guess all I need to do now is start a fraud college, steal classified docs, bankrupt casinos, pay hush money, grab pussies, discriminate in housing, cheat at golf and foment insurrection and you'll revere me!”