Will Trump be back ?

[Thoth]

He's not fit to be President.

He is also the most likely person to be elected President in 2024.

[Jon Miller]

it is very clear trump lost. it is very clear hillary lost. so lets remember this pattern of not being able to see the light did not start with trump.

Who disagreed that Hillary lost?

JM

[Jon Miller]

Russian collusion - false

Hillary Clinton personally approved her campaign's plans in fall 2016 to share information with a reporter about an uncorroborated alleged server backchannel between Donald Trump and a top Russian bank - which was false

Adam - Rep. Adam Schiff of California, the top Democrat on the House Intelligence Committee, said there is "plenty of evidence of collusion or conspiracy in plain sight" regarding the Trump campaign and Russia - false

none of these turned out to be true.

do you agree that these are now lies that have been confirmed lies Jon?

Russian collusion is not a confirmed lie.

Mueller was unable to prove Russian collusion as true or not due to obstruction. Something that is unconfirmed is neither a confirmed lie or a confirmed truth.

It was not proven. Whether true or not true, it was not maintained as an effort to oust Trump by the democrats. It had nothing to do with either of Trump's impeachments, for example. It is proven that Russia aided Trump in 2016 (https://www.politico.com/news/2020/0...in-2016-198171) and that Trump asked Russia for aid (https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politic...d-her-accounts). Just because that is not proven collusion does not mean that there was a lie being used to oust Trump. Mueller is a Republican and not Democrat (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Mueller).

A lie is a known falsehood. You know, like the lie that voter fraud is responsible for Trump's lost in 2020. It is being shown over and over again that many/most of the people involved knew it was not truth as they promoted it either to the American people or to Trump. There is some evidence that Trump knew it wasn't true as well (although some people said.. Barr? that Trump was detached from reality, in which case it was the big lie for all sorts of people in the administration but not necessarily for Trump ).

JM
(of course, someone detached from reality should never be close to the presidency)

[Jon Miller]

Also, while a possible server backchannel between Trump and Russia is suspicious, for the most part no one cares due to everything else which was a hundred or a thousand or a million times worse.

This has been some of the whole problem. Minor things that would have been a big deal to Clinton or Bush or Biden are just small compared to Trump's behavior. Including what Trump did in the open.

JM

[Jon Miller]

If you want places where I was wrong:

While the Hunter laptop story was completely ridiculous, it turns out to be true.

This doesn't mean that all the accusations related to it are true. And it still has the very serious provenance issues (you can't use it in a court of law).

But can you use it to motivate an investigation? Sure.

JM
(thanks Jrabbit)

[-Jrabbit]

"provenance"

[My Wife Hates CIV]

[Jon Miller]

We almost stopped being a democracy under Trump. After being a relatively healthy democracy under Reagan, both Bushes, Clinton and Obama. I am not (now) one of those liberals who think Bush (Jr) and Reagan were disasters for democracy (I admit that some on the left paint everyone right of Clinton or even as Obama as emergencies for democracy).

For the most part it was done openly. Or was reported directly.

Even stagflation (which we may or may not see) pales in comparison to this.

JM

[My Wife Hates CIV]

[My Wife Hates CIV]

[My Wife Hates CIV]

[Jon Miller]

This doesn't mean that all the accusations related to it are true

ok, but it doesn't mean that they are false. remember Jon, guilty until proven innocent. if you dont do it for both parties it means nothing.

Things that are neither proven to be true nor false can and should motivate investigations.

Trump is proven to have engaged in obstruction, pressured Ukraine to influence our elections in exchange for executing the directions of congress (to support them in defending against Russia) and undermining the 2020 election. The latter he did, whether he knew it was a lie or not. If he didn't know it was a lie, and didn't work with the Proud Boys/etc, then possibly he didn't do anything illegal but it would still be deeply wrong and unacceptable for a president or presidential candidate.

JM

[Jon Miller]

We almost stopped being a democracy under Trump.

We almost removed a sitting president based on dem lies.

What dem lies? You keep claiming and I give story after story showing that your claims are false.

Are you just unable to believe in truth?

This is thought to be a problem.

https://www.theatlantic.com/newsletters/archive/2022/06/what-are-trump-supporters-so-afraid-of/661346/

There was no russian collusion and Adam never had any proof.

We can talk about what collusion is.

Did Russia aid Trump? Yes, fact.

Did Trump ask Russia for help? Yes, fact.

He lied right to your face for years.

How is it a lie to state facts?

but thats ok because it's the side you like. I will take Trump over Biden any day along with my 401k loses back. I bet it only goes down more under Biden. I dont need moral guidance from a president - i know how to be a good person. i want a leader! not someone who is told what to say - and then messes it up anyway. How low can things go before you say - enough of biden???

Trump (and Obama) set up those loses. And Biden a bit, but mostly Trump and Obama.

You want a leader to make us slaves. Because you have a slave mindset.

JM

[My Wife Hates CIV]

[My Wife Hates CIV]

[Jon Miller]

It's not crazy that you want a master, that is mostly how humans have organized themselves.

It is crazy that you want a clown as a master.

JM