Prediction Thread: When Will Ukraine Conquer Russia

[The Mad Monk]

Are you going to believe me, or your own lying eyes?

[Serb]

And you know, Geronimo, I don't have any desire to speak with you anylonger.

[Serb]

A pathetic barinwashed morons, refusing the facts.

[Serb]

June 22, 1941 Hitler broke the anti-Poland alliance with the Soviet union with a massive back-stabbing invasion and the next day Bandera sent an official request to Adolf Hitler to support him in setting up an independent fascist state of Ukraine. Rather than wait any longer for a response Bandera proclaimed an independent fascist state of Ukraine 30Jun1941. By way of response Hitler had Bandera and the rest of his OUN-B leadership posse arrested jailed or killed. The OUN continued to inflict ghastly atrocities on the Poles, Jews, and Russians until defeated in detail by the Red Army but they no longer answered to Bandera. Bandera and the other jailed OUN members were released in September 1944 in exchange for a promise to kill Russians in the soviet occupied areas. Bandera ditched his Nazi guards and fled south and west to the Americans. He remained in American custody claiming to possess personal intelligence of the Soviet Union until his assassination by the KGB in October 1959.

Bandera was a fascist and a Nazi-wanna-be. He hated democracy and international socialism and saw the Soviet union first and Poland second as his and Ukrainians greatest enemies. His followers never seem to mention his role in massacres of Polish and Russian civilians. They talk about his supposed role as a partisan leader and founder of the previous short lived independent Ukrainian State. Honoring of Bandera is clearly desperate Ukrainian nationalism. Mykhailo Hrushevsky is also honored in Ukraine for much the same desperate nationalism. You hear a lot more about Bandera because Bandera is seen as flipping the bird to Russian dominance by Ukrainian nationalists and that successfully grabs a lot more foreign attention and concern. Mykhailo Hrushevsky on the other hand was a leftist and that makes him much more ambivalent statement of defiance to Soviet domination. The same desperate nationalism impelled Ukrainians to ditch any names or monuments that seemed to weld Ukrainian history to that of Russia or even the entire soviet Union and of course when political pressure would be sufficient to remove these offensive names, the same pressure will attempt to make a nationalist defiant statement with the re-naming and raising of replacement monuments to as obvious an anti-soviet character as Bandera.

Bandera homages don't show that the Ukrainians are so Nazi. It shows that Ukrainian nationalism is so anti-soviet.



I think seeing verified examples of these could clear up a great deal.



They favored Ukrainian and oppressed Russian But by no means did these camps have the kind of through-put to create the Ukrainian identity. The primary effect was to silence Russian elites in the territories the Austrian-Hungarian empire controlled in hopes of suppressing potential allegiance to the Russian empire.



We agree that there were already Ukrainian nationalists. We don't agree that foreigners created them.



Maybe we can find examples of the contents of these books to evaluate them. Spending 5 billion to help Ukraine print materials in Ukrainian is certainly quite a lot but in no way would it tell us the materials were specified to espouse fascist, let alone Nazi ideology. In any event nothing supports your contention that 5 billion went purely to Ukrainian fascist indoctrination. You can still find Nulands 8 minute sound bite and see.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U2fYcHLouXY#t=504

also these guys had a good discussion of the clip:

https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2014/mar/19/facebook-posts/united-states-spent-5-billion-ukraine-anti-governm/

Thanks for the link to the textbooks! The fact most of them do not appear to be textbooks but rather privately provided or sold propaganda strongly suggests the site is grasping for any Ukrainian anti-Russian propaganda they could find rather than showing a representative selection of Ukrainian text books and state provided education materials. I agree that the writers are all pushing a message of antipathy to the Russian State but none of them seem to advocate killing people or even treating people differently or not trusting people because they speak Russian. Did you see an example I missed? I'll take another look later as there is a lot there and I am sure Sputnik would want to include the most inflammatory examples they could dig up.





Serb you just confirmed everything I said about the status of the Russian Language in Russia. It has a special status enjoyed by no other language in Russia. Education in Russian must be available everywhere in Russia by Law. It is legal to use other languages alongside of Russian and to educate alongside Russian. This is much closer to the legal status of Ukrainian in Ukraine than it is, for example, to the status of English in the united states.

You know, Geronimo, I had a faith in you, believing that you are something more than your fellow countrymen.
But now I see that "ему хоть ссы в глаза, - всё Божья роса!"
The meaning of this Russian proverb is as follows:
No matter how you try to tell him that it is a black thing, he will always reply that it is white!

A couple of days ago one wise man have said to to me - "Never try to appeal to a reson of American, it's hopeless, because they have their own reason and don't care about the facts".

And he was absolutely right!
You are hopeless and pathetic!
Even the best of you!

[Geronimo]

Remind me the outcome of same voting about NATO agression against Yugoslavia, American invasion to Afghanistan and Iraq and NATO agression vs. Lybia and Syria?

I was looking for those as well. I couldn't find them. I suppose that may mean they didn't even come to a vote which I actually think is kinda sad.

[pchang]

If you do not stop drinking, Pekka won’t be waiting for too long.

[Geronimo]

Not really, I have a operation on heart next week.

Serb just get the transplant. It's probably not too late even now.

[Geronimo]

/ spam for correcting the hyperlinks, right!!!
Easily!

the Austro-Hungrians did so with Galitcia since the late 19th century, Nazis did so in 1930's, USA and Brits did so since 1945!


The followers of Bander were a NAZIs and were a Nazi collabrationists during the WW2. They were a mad dogs of Nazis, who had killed more people in Ukraine and Beylorussia, then the Nazis themselves.
They were killing Russians, Jews and Poles.
For German Nazis Jews were a primary target, Slavs were secondary.

For the Ukranianan Nazis Russians were always a primary target, while Jews and Poles to be secondary.
Check this out for example:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massac...astern_Galicia

The Bandera's followers were slaughtering civilinas in a most inhuman ways: burned then alive, buried them alive, saw them with saws alive, knok the nails into the foreheads alive, hiting the babies to the trees on the eyes of their mothers until death and then killing the mothers and so on.

THEY WERE THE FKN NAZI UKRANIAN BEASTS!!!

Now you have stadiums, streets and prospects named after Bandera, you have DOZENS of monuments erected in honor of Bandera and other NAZI war criminals (who were officially the officers of Waffen-SS) and at the same time hundrends of monuments, which were erected in honor of Soviet soldiers and Generals who had liberated Ukraine from the Nazis - destroyed!!!

June 22, 1941 Hitler broke the anti-Poland alliance with the Soviet union with a massive back-stabbing invasion and the next day Bandera sent an official request to Adolf Hitler to support him in setting up an independent fascist state of Ukraine. Rather than wait any longer for a response Bandera proclaimed an independent fascist state of Ukraine 30Jun1941. By way of response Hitler had Bandera and the rest of his OUN-B leadership posse arrested jailed or killed. The OUN continued to inflict ghastly atrocities on the Poles, Jews, and Russians until defeated in detail by the Red Army but they no longer answered to Bandera. Bandera and the other jailed OUN members were released in September 1944 in exchange for a promise to kill Russians in the soviet occupied areas. Bandera ditched his Nazi guards and fled south and west to the Americans. He remained in American custody claiming to possess personal intelligence of the Soviet Union until his assassination by the KGB in October 1959.

Bandera was a fascist and a Nazi-wanna-be. He hated democracy and international socialism and saw the Soviet union first and Poland second as his and Ukrainians greatest enemies. His followers never seem to mention his role in massacres of Polish and Russian civilians. They talk about his supposed role as a partisan leader and founder of the previous short lived independent Ukrainian State. Honoring of Bandera is clearly desperate Ukrainian nationalism. Mykhailo Hrushevsky is also honored in Ukraine for much the same desperate nationalism. You hear a lot more about Bandera because Bandera is seen as flipping the bird to Russian dominance by Ukrainian nationalists and that successfully grabs a lot more foreign attention and concern. Mykhailo Hrushevsky on the other hand was a leftist and that makes him much more ambivalent statement of defiance to Soviet domination. The same desperate nationalism impelled Ukrainians to ditch any names or monuments that seemed to weld Ukrainian history to that of Russia or even the entire soviet Union and of course when political pressure would be sufficient to remove these offensive names, the same pressure will attempt to make a nationalist defiant statement with the re-naming and raising of replacement monuments to as obvious an anti-soviet character as Bandera.

Bandera homages don't show that the Ukrainians are so Nazi. It shows that Ukrainian nationalism is so anti-soviet.

You did so perfectly!!!
You have grew and supported then!
You have printed shchools books to grow them, make TV-movies and so on.

I think seeing verified examples of these could clear up a great deal.

The first death camps in Europe were made by Austro-Hungrians for Russians.


Thalerhof camp:

The Austro-Hungarian authorities imprisoned leaders of the Russophile movement among Carpatho-Rusyns, Lemkos, and Galicians (see Galician Russophilia); those who recognized the Russian language as the literary standard form of their own Slavic language varieties and had sympathy for the Russian Empire. Thus, the captives were forced to abandon their identity as Russians, or sympathies for Russia, and identify as Ukrainian. Captives who identified themselves as Ukrainians were freed from the camp.



Terezín camp:

During the second half of the 19th century, the fortress was also used as a prison. During World War I, the fortress was used as a political prison camp. Many thousand supporters of Russia (Ukrainian Russophiles from Galicia and Bukovina) were placed by Austro-Hungarian authorities in the fortress.

The Austro-Hungrians had hanged anyone who had indetified himself as Russian and with that bloody lesson thaught anyone to be Ukarnains!

They have killed dozens of thousands of the ones who had refused to betray their identity and faith in those two death camps!
And thus created "Ukranians" as a Nation.
Before that they were MaloRussians - "the original Russians".
They made "Ukranians" by the terror!!!

They favored Ukrainian and oppressed Russian But by no means did these camps have the kind of through-put to create the Ukrainian identity. The primary effect was to silence Russian elites in the territories the Austrian-Hungarian empire controlled in hopes of suppressing potential allegiance to the Russian empire.

The USA has came on a very good poured soil in 1945. There were already Ukranian Nationalist created by Austro-Hungarians, then German Nazis. You didn't bild anything from scratch!
There was already a basis for that!

We agree that there were already Ukrainian nationalists. We don't agree that foreigners created them.

Once again - YOU didn't created Ukranian nationalism, you have supported it since 1945!!!
But the Ukranian Nationalism was always - NAZI!
That is the backbone of their National idea - to kill Russian, that is their Nazi specifics!
And of course you have supported that with all your open hearts and do so now!
Since the fall of the Soviet Union in 1991 you have started to support this Nazi movement in Ukraine on unprecedented scale. Between 1991 and 2013 you have rised a whole NAZI generation of Ukranian Nationalist by printing a shchool books for them, by making movies, by all other Soros's NCO activities in Ukraine. Viky Nooland have confessed once that you have spend five BILLION dollars for that (but you can't find that video on youtube, because, you fker have a "freedom of spech".

Maybe we can find examples of the contents of these books to evaluate them. Spending 5 billion to help Ukraine print materials in Ukrainian is certainly quite a lot but in no way would it tell us the materials were specified to espouse fascist, let alone Nazi ideology. In any event nothing supports your contention that 5 billion went purely to Ukrainian fascist indoctrination. You can still find Nulands 8 minute sound bite and see.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U2fYcHLouXY#t=504

"Since Ukraine's independence in 1991, the United States has supported Ukrainians as they build democratic skills and institutions, as they promote civic participation and good governance, all of which are preconditions for Ukraine to achieve its European aspirations,"

"We have invested over $5 billion to assist Ukraine in these and other goals that will ensure a secure and prosperous and democratic Ukraine."

also these guys had a good discussion of the clip:

https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2014/mar/19/facebook-posts/united-states-spent-5-billion-ukraine-anti-governm/

Then start to with this one link, there is a brif summary of such Ukrainian books in English:

https://stanislavs.org/ukrainian-chi...by-terrorists/


And how they did it:

"In ‘History: Ukraine and the World’, a textbook for 10th graders by Oleksandr Gisem, the author loses all scruples and resorts to crude forgeries. In one instance, he uses a photograph of children behind barbed wire, labelled ‘Child prisoners of the Gulag, late 1930s’. A sign in the photo is written in Russian, and reads ‘Resettlement camp, entry and conversation through barbed wire is prohibited under the penalty of execution’"

Page from Ukrainian history textbook for 10th graders. Text reads: “Children – prisoners of the Gulag. Late 1930s. © Photo


But if one runs the photo through a search, the original quickly pops up. It turns out that the writing on the sign is cut off, and that it has an upper part written in Finnish.

Photo of Soviet children in a concentration camp taken by war correspondent Galina Sanko, and featured as evidence during the Nuremberg Trials. © Photo

The children in the photo are prisoners at the 6th Finnish concentration camp in Petrozavodsk. During the occupation of Soviet Karelia, the Finns created six such camps in the area to hold Russian-speaking residents. The photo was taken by war correspondent Galina Sanko after Petrozavodsk’s liberation by Soviet troops on 28 June, 1944. Sanko entitled the photo ‘Prisoners of fascism’. This photo was even presented among the evidence at the Nuremberg Trials.

https://stanislavs.org/ukrainian-children-zombified-brainwashed-and-trained-by-terrorists/

That is how they and YOU did it!

By LYING!!!

As you always does it, the EMPIRE OF LIES!!!

Thanks for the link to the textbooks! The fact most of them do not appear to be textbooks but rather privately provided or sold propaganda strongly suggests the site is grasping for any Ukrainian anti-Russian propaganda they could find rather than showing a representative selection of Ukrainian text books and state provided education materials. I agree that the writers are all pushing a message of antipathy to the Russian State but none of them seem to advocate killing people or even treating people differently or not trusting people because they speak Russian. Did you see an example I missed? I'll take another look later as there is a lot there and I am sure Sputnik would want to include the most inflammatory examples they could dig up.

You don't know a sh!t about Russia except your American sterotypes!
Who do you think we have conserved all the peoples and their cultures, when their had become a part of Russia?
We have kept their languages, cultures, faith and way of live! That is how!
We have never tried to exterminate them to freed space for the white race!
We have incorporated them into our Empire and took the best of them, while giving the best of us to them!

THAT IS A FKN SYMPHONY OF A REAL EMPIRE!!!

WE ARE MANY AND AT THE SAME - ONE!!!

A MIX OF NATIONALITIES, CULTURES AND FAITHS!

AND ALTOGETHER - WE ARE RUSSIA!!!

That is something you Westerners just can't understand, because you know only a "Master and servant" paradigm.

FYI:

The modern Russian is a FEDERATION (and alwyas have been) of many regions mostly populated by Russians and many National republics populated by their NATIVE people, where Russians are minority.

And according to the Article 68 of the Russian Constitution:

"1. The state language of the Russian Federation throughout its territory is Russian as the language of the state-forming people, which is part of the multinational union of equal peoples of the Russian Federation.

2. Republics have the right to establish their official languages. In state authorities, local self-government bodies, and state institutions of the republics, they are used along with the state language of the Russian Federation.

3. The Russian Federation guarantees to all its peoples the right to preserve their native language, create conditions for its study and development.

4. Culture in the Russian Federation is a unique heritage of its multinational people. Culture is supported and protected by the state".

And since those rights are guaranteed by the CONSTITUTION, the Russian Federation (consisted out of 89 subjects of Federation) has 39, THIRTY NINE, state languages, plus 15 official languages!

That means, if you live in a National republic, your children are taught in your national language! If you want to recieve any state services - you can get it on both languages: your national language and Russian, you see street signs on both languages and so on! That means in your national republic Russian and your native language are absolutely EQUAL!!!

AND THAT IS A LAW!!!

(As for the official languages - that means on those territories foreign languages, not native for this place are considered as equals and have the same rights as the state languages, because there are a large community bearing this language).




The Ukranian Nazi collaborators have never fought for the independent Ukraine!
They were a Nazi whoresm who had commited more notorious crimes against civilians, then German Nazis themselves!
And and now they are the heros of Ukraine!

The Bandera is officially a HERO OF UKRAINE!!!

A bloodbathing NAZI COLLABORATOR is their OFFICIAL HERO!!!

DUMB IDIOTS!!!

And you admire him...

Well, what makes you anything but a NAZI then?!!!

Serb you just confirmed everything I said about the status of the Russian Language in Russia. It has a special status enjoyed by no other language in Russia. Education in Russian must be available everywhere in Russia by Law. It is legal to use other languages alongside of Russian and to educate alongside Russian. This is much closer to the legal status of Ukrainian in Ukraine than it is, for example, to the status of English in the united states.

[Serb]

Russia condemned by UN as resolution calling for peace passes

The United Nations General Assembly has voted overwhelmingly to approve a resolution condemning Russia's invasion and calling for the withdrawal of troops from Ukraine and a halt to fighting.
The resolution was approved with 141 nations voting in favour, 32 abstaining and seven voting against - a similar outcome to previous resolutions on Ukraine.
https://www.bbc.com/news/live/world-64742349

Remind me the outcome of same voting about NATO agression against Yugoslavia, American invasion to Afghanistan and Iraq and NATO agression vs. Lybia and Syria?

[Serb]

Pekka can wait and he is laughiong at us now

That is for sure!!!

[Broken_Erika]

Russia condemned by UN as resolution calling for peace passes

The United Nations General Assembly has voted overwhelmingly to approve a resolution condemning Russia's invasion and calling for the withdrawal of troops from Ukraine and a halt to fighting.
The resolution was approved with 141 nations voting in favour, 32 abstaining and seven voting against - a similar outcome to previous resolutions on Ukraine.

https://www.bbc.com/news/live/world-64742349

[Bereta_Eder]

Pekka can wait and he is laughiong at us now

[Serb]

Pekka can wait!!!

[Serb]

I hope you keep no offence on me for that barking between brothers.
Stay fit!
Pekka can wait!

[Bereta_Eder]

If something happens to me it will be immediate and final. I went out with a doctor, according to her I might as well be dead

anyway
the good thing is I'm in a high octane job with high octane people and there is a lot of meaning in life