Prediction Thread: When Will Ukraine Conquer Russia

[Serb]

Hiding behind the greatest nazi killer of all times.

A communist, my as$!

[Serb]

You are barking like little dog barking on elefant.

[Serb]

US can and does wipe the floor with your little clown nazis

Seaking abot "little", how about you, why do hide behind USA as a complete coward?
Perhaps that is what you are - a little PATHETIC clown instead of a great Empire you once was?

[Serb]

Poor serb talking like russia is some major nation

it is a third world dictatorship and not even on the same leauge as the US


it is the shortest test to know if someone is a nazi bastard

do you like russia?

Remind me, who the fck might you be, and how many people on Earth knows about Greece or can show it on the map.

You are a barking clown from the land of Nothing.

[Serb]

The problem Serb is that the Kinzhal and any other supersonic, let alone hypersonic, projectile is painstakingly engineered to cut through the atmosphere with minimal atmospheric drag. The moment the outer skin suffers any significant deformation that was not engineered into the projectile the drag is invariably greatly increased. In general the faster the projectile the less forgiving the tolerances for such deformations become. A Kinzhal intercepted by pretty much anything that could deform the skin at all is almost certainly going to completely break apart starting at the points of deformation. A broken apart Kinzhal now has a massive increase in surface area. What is the traditional way to get a projectile back to the ground at high speed without leaving a crater? Use a parachute. How does a parachute work? It has a massive surface area that greatly increases drag. A Kinzhal breaking up at Mach 10, that is not at its final approach split seconds from impact, even a low flying one, will definitely not leave much, if any, of a crater. It will not leave a crater because in the time it takes for the pieces to hit the ground, nearly all of the pieces will have had a chance to catastrophically decelerate to terminal velocity. This is also why space projectiles, including everything from all but the very largest meteors meteors (waaaay more massive than a Kinzhal), decayed satellites, to deorbited space stations or a disintegrating space Shuttle Columbia don't leave much, if any crater when they reach Earth despite velocities literally 2x-3x faster than a Kinzhal.

Kinzhal, was indeed designed to reach its target at speeds where hypervelocity effects will turn its mass into a large ground penetrating bunker. That design however is totally dependent on an intact airframe to maintain those speeds all the way to the target. If there is damage that causes a drag/airframe failure cascade along the way, (in practical terms almost any damage at all really) all of the hypervelocity effects are almost instantly expended in atmospheric interactions that only serve to massively increase the deceleration of the debris.

These things will not leave a crater unless they are a couple of seconds from hitting the ground when the deceleration begins. If they are 50 feet in the air on a flat ground hugging Mach 10 vector (almost certainly they cruise much higher than that) it would be at least several seconds before anything had a chance to reach the ground. During which time the debris might put on a spectacular disintegration show, but it would certainly not leave much of a crater with any of the various pieces.

Bullsh!t!


The meteors traveling to the Earth surface are being burned due to friction to Earth atmosphere. The shuttle Columbia had started to fall apart, because of the atmosphere friction (iirc), because a part of its protective layer was missing due to incompetent launch. That process have started at the upper layer of the atmosphere and continued to the end of Columbia, when it was glading dow to the Earth surface with a hypersonic speed.

On the other hand, Kinzhal is a hypersonic cruise , not a ballistic missile (like a Columbia, if we assume it was). Columbia was was falling to Earth with approximate to Kinzhal speed, but Kinzhal doesn't have a ballistic trajectory.​
Kinzhal is launched from the fastest interceptor on Earth - Mig-31 to give it an additional velocity.

It is not a ballistic missile!!!
It doesn't go at the ballistic trajectory (parabolla) it goes straight, then go down to its target like a cruise missile.
I don't know (as well anybody know on this planet, except its maker) the exact weight and velocity of Kinzhal missile, to make a calculation, but I am pretty sure, if you take one ball travelling ten times faster and somehow strike it with a ball travekinng with 1/3 of that velocity, you will get a shards of the body A doing a great damage to the surface, simly because of their kinetick energy!
That is an obvios thing, really!​

The law of preservation of impulse or the law of momentum in your language.

[Bereta_Eder]

snip snip snip

[Bereta_Eder]

snip snip snip

[Bereta_Eder]

snip snip snip

[Geronimo]

Damn! It's basics about mechanics, really!
If a body A is travelling at Mach 10 and miracilusly hit by the body B, travelling at 2.8 Mach, the shards of the body A would still have a lot of kinetic energy to produce a crater much larger, then 1,5 meter deep.
(Assuming that the original body of A was designed and proved to be capable of destroing concrete bunkers 30 meters below the Earth surface).


Ukraine just posted another lie and wet dream about shot down Kinzhal and then they got a reply a couple days after with a Kinzhal destroying your Patriot.
Simple as that!

​

The problem Serb is that the Kinzhal and any other supersonic, let alone hypersonic, projectile is painstakingly engineered to cut through the atmosphere with minimal atmospheric drag. The moment the outer skin suffers any significant deformation that was not engineered into the projectile the drag is invariably greatly increased. In general the faster the projectile the less forgiving the tolerances for such deformations become. A Kinzhal intercepted by pretty much anything that could deform the skin at all is almost certainly going to completely break apart starting at the points of deformation. A broken apart Kinzhal now has a massive increase in surface area. What is the traditional way to get a projectile back to the ground at high speed without leaving a crater? Use a parachute. How does a parachute work? It has a massive surface area that greatly increases drag. A Kinzhal breaking up at Mach 10, that is not at its final approach split seconds from impact, even a low flying one, will definitely not leave much, if any, of a crater. It will not leave a crater because in the time it takes for the pieces to hit the ground, nearly all of the pieces will have had a chance to catastrophically decelerate to terminal velocity. This is also why space projectiles, including everything from all but the very largest meteors meteors (waaaay more massive than a Kinzhal), decayed satellites, to deorbited space stations or a disintegrating space Shuttle Columbia don't leave much, if any crater when they reach Earth despite velocities literally 2x-3x faster than a Kinzhal.

Kinzhal, was indeed designed to reach its target at speeds where hypervelocity effects will turn its mass into a large ground penetrating bunker. That design however is totally dependent on an intact airframe to maintain those speeds all the way to the target. If there is damage that causes a drag/airframe failure cascade along the way, (in practical terms almost any damage at all really) all of the hypervelocity effects are almost instantly expended in atmospheric interactions that only serve to massively increase the deceleration of the debris.

These things will not leave a crater unless they are a couple of seconds from hitting the ground when the deceleration begins. If they are 50 feet in the air on a flat ground hugging Mach 10 vector (almost certainly they cruise much higher than that) it would be at least several seconds before anything had a chance to reach the ground. During which time the debris might put on a spectacular disintegration show, but it would certainly not leave much of a crater with any of the various pieces.

[Serb]

Ah, real life documentation made by independent journalists against russian MOD claims

"A real life documentation made by independent journalists" - was just a copy/paste of mindfarts, wet dreams and bullsh!t claims of one, single Ukranian official, with no proofs whatsoever!

Just a fart to the pond!

The reply to that insane claims was a destruction of Patriot battery (located inside the city, which is a war crime, by the way, because thus they use civilians as human shield) few days after by Kinzhal missiles, which it claim to be able to intercept.

The end of story!!!
​

[Serb]

Ah, real life documentation made by independent journalists against russian MOD claims

Show it!

[Serb]

and this - think about it. IF russia had done nothing... never started this - russian would still be a respected world power today. wow... putin screwed it up. big time.

Bullsh!t!

You have started this war against Russia in 2014!!!

[Serb]

And I don't have any phisics background. I've studied only basics in a school and University. Those courses were a basis part of curriculum for engineers on part with history, phylosopy, high mathematics and advanced geometry, economics, managment and many other things, like English. The beauty of Soviet highschool education system was in educating student for three years with a basic things in many fields of knowledge and only two last years educating them to their actual future speciality.

[Serb]

Damn! It's basics about mechanics, really!
If a body A is travelling at Mach 10 and miracilusly hit by the body B, travelling at 2.8 Mach, the shards of the body A would still have a lot of kinetic energy to produce a crater much larger, then 1,5 meter deep.
(Assuming that the original body of A was designed and proved to be capable of destroing concrete bunkers 30 meters below the Earth surface).


Ukraine just posted another lie and wet dream about shot down Kinzhal and then they got a reply a couple days after with a Kinzhal destroying your Patriot.
Simple as that!

​

[Geronimo]

And as for your question, my knowledge of physics goes from my Soviet school and my Soviet university.

ok Serb explain this exchange in which after you previously appeared to indicate that a bunker busting kinzhal intercepted at Mach 10 well before its final approach would have to leave some kind of crater, even insisting it would have to leave a crater larger than 1.5 meters you next follow up with the following gem:

Only an idiot or an American (which is pretty much the same) could really believe that SAM system with a radar designed to track targets at Mach 3 and equipped with missiles, which travels at 2.8 Mach at best has ANY CHANCE to track and intercept a target, which travels at MACH 10!!!

Keep eating your Kiev's sh!t, idiots!

Kinzhals are crap. Analysis of their parts show that some are being constructed using washing machine parts.

But...just to show your ignorance a bit more. The radar for a Patriot can track objects going MUCH faster than mach 10. It is the software that has limitations in processing that data. The evidence before us seems to show that your information is, at the very least, dated.

​

In addition to Plato's fine reply I'd like to address your assertion that the Mach 2.8 speed of the patriot makes its interception of an object at Mach 10 impossible.

If I wanted to intercept a 600 kph bullet train with a stationary (0 kph) interceptor I could lay the interceptor on the track and be amazingly successful.

the difficulty in an interception has nothing to do with the speed of the interceptor relative to the target and everything to do with accurately placing the interceptor in the path of the target within the available time window.

The patriot system can track the kinzhal and guide the interceptor with more than enough accuracy to intercept. The only question would be can the kinzhal manoever enough to thwart the interception? Furthermore at hypersonic speeds will the kinzhal be more or less maneuverable and responsive than the much slower patriot interceptor? Russia has wanted the entire world to believe that it is. I'm not sure anybody is buying it anymore. Maybe it has something to do with the finding in the wreckage that Plato alluded to of those dishwasher parts that were found to have been MacGyvered into the missiles?

​

Serb given your declared physics background are you just trolling with your laughably weak and contrary to physics and engineering contributions to these exchanges or do you expect us to believe you really believe the whacky things you've said wrt to patriot vs kinzhal?