Prediction Thread: When Will Ukraine Conquer Russia

[Geronimo]

I've seen poverty and a suicide on a mass-scale in 90's in my country, as well as a civil war between Russia and its part Chechnya instigated by YOU, USA).
I've seen how our government was infested by your American and Western "advisors", who had the real power over the economy and everything else (absolutely the same kind of power you have over Ukraine since 2014).
I've seen how your Corporations were withdrawing trillions, not billions, but TRILLIONS of USD from the Russian economy to the American, British , Cyprus banks.​
I've seen it all! With my own eyes!

So, don't fuking tell me, American, you know better then me about Russia!​

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My father had a possition of an eqivalent of a major of 1 million city (my city) during the Soviet times and later was a minister of indusrty of Omsk region (1.5 million population and a large industrial and scientific center of Russia, where such things as Russian tanks, hypersonic missiles and spaceships are made).
And he knows personally Putin and Medvedev - two out of three Russian presidents, just because of the job (the first president - Yeltsin was a fker, nobody want to be happy to know him). As well, as he personally knew the first man in the open space Alexey Leonov or the coach of the "Red machine" of the legendary Canada-Russia series of 80's, Anatoly Tarasov, which is an absolute LEGEND in the world of hockey. I have a hockey stick signed by the whole team USSR of that series and he personally knows Slava Tretyak as well, just like he knows Alexander "Storm" Shlemenko MMA champion. I have books in my library, signed by such persons as Soviet fieldmarshals, Soviet cinema stars or world-known travelers and all that kind of sh!t!

He is retired now from the state service, but you may consider him as one of my sources.​​

Seeing the devastation of the macro-economic meltdown of the 90's first hand certainly explains your passion about the crime but it does not increase the credibility of your implication of the criminal(s).

You seem to be saying that your "own eyes", with respect to implicating those criminals, actually were those of your close family. Of course this gives me pause, not because I think that grants more credibility, but because now pursuing a healthy debate may be construed by you as some sort of personal attack on your family.

I suppose you should instead say that your father saw trillions of USD from the Russian economy transferred to foreign banks. First of all, that's not something even the president of a country sees with their own eyes. Nobody sees that with their own eyes. Secondly withdrawing TRILLION of USD (or any amount really) and depositing it in foreign banks isn't theft. If it is then PRC is the biggest such "thief" in the world, but you seem eager to tie the Russian economy more closely to theirs. Third, if Russian oligarchs were moving those Trillions overseas how would things have looked different to you or to your father and his illustrious friends?

How exactly do you maintain the US achieved its theft? Did your father claim they hacked Russian bank accounts? Held guns to their heads or ransomed their kidnapped family members? Defrauded them over and over in con jobs where they took payment for goods and services never rendered? What kind of theft exactly was seen by your sources with their own eyes?

I think it makes the most sense that when Russian oligarchs (who definitely had the opportunity for such theft) stole trillions it was in their interests to blame foreigners and Russians were eager to believe that and bitterly pass along those delusions to their sons and other immediate family.

[Geronimo]

I was wondering if that oathkeeper guy really lost an eye, or if is he's just using an eyepatch to look sharper?

According to the Mythbu$ters pirates would wear an eyepatch so that when their raids would move indoors from the sunny outdoors they could move the eyepatch over for instant adaptation to the lower light levels to more efficiently pursue their victims and ransack the place.

[BeBMan]

The actual seditious conspiracy convictions are probably just a coincidence.

I was wondering if that oathkeeper guy really lost an eye, or if is he's just using an eyepatch to look sharper?

[Serb]

Serb is still full of surprises, Geronimo.

[Serb]

Keep farting to the glass full of water on half, Westerners!

[Serb]

Only if it's also a coup for a leader to be elected after killing an unpopular protestor with his bare hands on national TV and getting elected partly due to jury nullification and public backlash against the protests.

It's not enough to have violent toadies, do something violent personally, or even gain power in part due to violent actions. The violent actions must constitute some sort of coercive force applied to the political process.

I would agree that a leader forced to flee for his life could be a coup if those who gained power forced him to flee. I don't agree that Viktor was forced to flee. I don't agree that those who gained power were threatening his life or using force.

What a sh!t!!!

[Serb]

...

[Serb]

Really? . "I have seen with my own eyes[/U] in 90's."??

How is that even possible? You saw them load up the assets into cargo planes running from the cops?

What did you actually see with your own eyes Serb?

I've seen poverty and a suicide on a mass-scale in 90's in my country, as well as a civil war between Russia and its part Chechnya instigated by YOU, USA).
I've seen how our government was infested by your American and Western "advisors", who had the real power over the economy and everything else (absolutely the same kind of power you have over Ukraine since 2014).
I've seen how your Corporations were withdrawing trillions, not billions, but TRILLIONS of USD from the Russian economy to the American, British , Cyprus banks.​
I've seen it all! With my own eyes!

So, don't fuking tell me, American, you know better then me about Russia!​

[Dinner]

Never mind. Big G covered it. I will disagree that there was ever any "coup" attempt.

[Geronimo]

The actual seditious conspiracy convictions are probably just a coincidence.

I think that was sort of his point. That the FBI didn't claim an organized conspiracy for the whole event but instead prosecuted smaller conspiracies within the riot/protest. My point was that that in no way renders viewing it overall as an attempted coup unreasonable.

[N35t0r]

The actual seditious conspiracy convictions are probably just a coincidence.

[Geronimo]

Wow, Ming is really drinking the Kool aid. There was no organized attempt to stop the transfer of power according to the FBI report. Maybe you should read it?

In hindsight an organized failed coup can be much harder to prove than a successful one. Just because the FBI didn't think they had enough evidence to treat the entire incursion of protestors and rioters as an organized coup does not mean there is a lack of convincing evidence that at least some of them wanted to prevent the transfer of power. Do you really believe the shouts to hang Mike pence weren't driven by opposition to the certification of votes?

​​​​​​Believing the capital incursion 06jan2021 was an attempted (if weakly organized and supported) coup is perfectly reasonable. Hardly "drinking the Kool aid".

[Dinner]

Wow, Ming is really drinking the Kool aid. There was no organized attempt to stop the transfer of power according to the FBI report. Maybe you should read it?

[Ming]

That was a protest turned riot with a couple hundred govt assets in attendance. If it was a coup they would have brought guns and used them, not roam the halls of the capital taking selfies. If MAGA snipers killed over a hundred people to frame Biden and he fled for his life, that would be a coup.

Uhhhh... they tried to stop the legal transfer of power. That was an attempted coup. FACT.

[Geronimo]

The separatists didn't need to be set up, the people in these regions wanted greater autonomy and the Nazis said fu to them. Why do the victims have to be politicians? If the leader is framed for a massacre and flees for his life that isn't a coup because he wasn't killed? Where did you find that requirement in the definition?

Oh good, because Azov didn't need to be setup either so I guess now you'll stop invoking them to justify everything Russia does.

The victims don't need to be politicians but the crimes against the victims do need to be politically coercive if they are not. Violence as deception would not count. You need to understand that if force=violence, your Webster definition starts to include scenarios that do not even remotely resemble a coup. The definition is clearly using a narrower sense of the word "force" than just "violence". Dictionaries don't work if you don't use some critical thinking.

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