Prediction Thread: When Will Ukraine Conquer Russia

[Berzerker]

and I believe one of the reasons the Pakistani leader preferred recruiting radicals is because he didn't want them in his country causing trouble

[Serb]

It was a long post by geronimo and it took a lot of time and text to reply it.
Thanks for letting it through.
And get fit!
You ARE this place (no matter what we think about each other)

[Serb]

Well, thanks then!
Did you notice that I was extremely restrained and excluded all the swearings? ))

[Serb]

We did it once, we'll do it again!

And thanks God we had pwned you West not just once, but all the time during the last thousand years.


You are no match for Russians in war!

Carve that in your forehead!

[Ming]

Any post that long with so many links will be considered spam by the software.
I approved it when I noticed it

[Serb]

My reply is unapproved, Geronimo.
Despite I have intentionally edited it before posting and excluded all bad words.

A freedom of speech at its best!

[Serb]

I'm glad you've stuck around 23 years to discuss. Not often civilly I have to admit, but you still discuss.

I a m S e r b!!!


And I will always stand on my own, because the truth in on my side!

What cities did the Ukrainians hit with massed artillery?

All of the cities of Donbass.
I've shown you video reports from the American ex-marine Russel Bently.
You didn't give a damn about all video evidences.
And surelly your mainstream media will never show you the war crimes of Ukraine.
They do even better - they took video of Ukranian war crimes and say that it's Russia.

Was it ok for Grozny to be hit with massed artillery?

Not even a close to what you have did!
When we fought against inetrnational terrorists, sponsored and supported by YOU (the West), you called them freedom fighters, and wholeheartly supported people who took pregnant women as hostages and blew civilian buildings. You did support those separatists, unlike the separatism of Donbass region. So, you are just double talking liars!
As for your question, unlike Ukranian Nazis, who use civilians as a human shield and placing their weapon systems like Patriot inside the civilan blocks (which leads to casualities among civilians, when YOUR AA-systenms fail and hit the civilian buildings, your media portray as acts of Russian atrocities), when we stormed Grozny, we had provided a humanitarian corridor and let civilians to flee the city. Same story in Ukraine - we provide a safe passage for civilians, but your Ukro-Nazi lackeys just don't let the civilians to leave a war zone, because their need them as a human shield.
That tactics was implemented first by you with your another private army - ISIS. It's absolutely the same!!!

You hold up Grozny as a literal shining example because after it was flattened and the local leadership subverted to Moscow, Moscow funded a huge rebuilding.

Grozny now is one of the most beatiful and incredibly safe Russian cities!
A Western eye witness:

And from the drone with no comments:

Tell me, what American invasion forces had left in the cities of Iraq and Afghanistan that they have leveled to the ground without any corridors for civilians to exit?

YOU HAVE KILLED MILLIONS!!!
Literally - MILLIONS!!!
And left only RUINS!!!
Period!

(not that I expect that your media will ever show you results of your artillery sheling of Fallujah for example and how those ruins still look like).




So, you don't have any moral ground to lecture us about anything!

Guess whom Ukranian "freedom fighters" fear more than Russians now?

Chechens!!!

Because we have settled our problems between us and now they are our Muslim brothers and fierce warriors fighting against you and your Shaitan (Satan) puppet!
We are in the same boat now, despite the war we had 20+ years ago.
And they are as Russian, as myself!
Because to be Russian is not about ethnicity or Religion, it is about how you define yourself and how do you see and feel the other World.
It's about a common culture, which combines 193 EQUAL nationalities and languages, where each one is unique, but alltogether they create a single Russian symphony!
You, colonial West, and genocide doers, will never understand that!

So, when entrapped in their Donbass basements Russian speaking civilians, used as human shield heard "Allah akbar!!" their reply was - "Thanks God, our guys are came!"

And that is no joke and propaganda!

Allakh just mean "God" or "Allmighty" in Arabic. Simple as that.

And we've been living with our Muslim brothers for centuries in one country peacefully.

Unlike you!!!

Was Ukraine ever given a chance to do any huge rebuilding in Donbas. Well, not anywhere the separatists kept control of.

They didn't invest a penny in the Donbass region before 2014, instead they were just sucking all blood from it.
Your fantasies about how they could have rebuild places for the population they hate so much (Russians in Donbass) are either a naive ignorance or intentional bullsh!t!
Or an escape from reality.

I was in Crimea in 2006, me and my wife had a vacation there.
And I was in Crimea before, when I was kid. The only reason we went to Crimea was to visit the Sevastopol, where my grandfather was wounded and received another medal for liberation of Crimea fro m the Nazis.
Crimea is poured with Russian blood since the 18th century and "Ukraine" has nothing common with Crimea!!!

NOTHING!!!
It is a Russian land!!!

So, in 2006, after 15 years of Ukranian rule they have turned the place into a complete sh!thole!
It was awful!
In 2006 the place was worse than it was in Soviet Union in late 80's.

And since we get Crimea back in 2014, we have turned it to a candy!

PERIOD!!!

But the Ukrainians did regain control of Mariupol, with plenty of Azov military formation credit for the job.

You mean this Azov?






In Nazi Germany, the Wolfsangel symbol was widely adopted in Nazi symbolism. It is not clear whether the driver of its adoption was Hitler's strong personal association with wolf imagery (the Wolf's Lair for example), or to create an association with the post-15th-century symbol of German independence and liberty, which had a particular relationship to the achievement of German freedom from foreign influence by force.^[A Nazi leader and his family. The youngest girls wear Wolfsangel symbols in horizontal form as members of NS-Frauenschaft's Deutsche Kinderschar for children.
The symbol was used by a range of military and non-military Nazi-linked groups, including:

• the 19th Infantry Division (Wehrmacht)
• the 19th Panzer Division (Wehrmacht)
• the 33rd Infantry Division (Wehrmacht)
• the 206th Infantry Division (Wehrmacht)
• the 256th Infantry Division (Wehrmacht)
• the 2nd SS Panzer Division Das Reich
• the 4th SS Polizei Panzergrenadier Division
• the 34th SS Volunteer Grenadier Division Landstorm Nederland
• the Sturmabteilung "Feldherrnhalle" Wachstandart Kampfrunen (SA "Warlord's Hall" Guard Regiment)
• the NS-Volkswohlfahrt organization
• the Flämische Nazionalsozialistische Kraftfahr Korps (Vlaamsche NSKK)
• the "Vlaamse wacht" / zwarte brigade (Flemish guard / Black brigade)
• the "Dietse Militie" (Dietsch militia)
• the Nationaal-Socialistische Beweging NSB, Dutch Nazi fascist party, whose magazine was De Wolfsangel
• the Werwolf plan of resistance against allied occupation was intended to use this symbol

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wolfsangel

Or maybe this Nazi Donbass batallion?

They turned Mariupol into a gleaming gem like Grozny.

Where can I get your weed or heroin?

You have no clue what your Nazis dogs were doing to the local population!
How many people have been raped and tortured to death for supporting Russia.
Their best entertainment was to foam (construction foam from balloons) female vaginas.
Just like your ISIS puppets foamed the throats of their prisoners in Syria.

If they just wanted to kill ethnic Russians, why would they spruce up one of their largest cities like that?

They DID!!!
But your media will never tell you about that!

One week before the February 24, 2022, 2500 Ukrainian troops were massed to start a heavy bombardment of Donbass cities.


What an incredible joke. Do you not see that in that same time frame over 100,000 (over 200k in hindsight) Russian troops were massed to start heavy bombardment of all Ukrainian cities anywhere near any part of Russia, Belarus, or the Donbass?

I have made a typo, not 2500, but 250 000 (two handred and fifty thousands!) were prepared to invide Donbass and had started all the preliminary action like heavy bombardment of the other side positions (cease fire of Minsk agreement? Nah, never heard about that within the last eight years).

I have spilled beer on my keyboard, so the "0" button on my numpad doesn't work properly now.

Who is going to believe the Ukrainians wanted to attack the Donbas but would wait until there were 100K+ massed Russian forces all around them to do it?

You idiots and your Ukranian puppets!
When we have started our operation we have been outnumbered 3 to 1!
But still was managed to fking crush your puppets.
Knowing that force ratio surelly they thought we would never risk to help Donbass in a full scale intervention.

Saakashvili thought so in 2008, when he attacked Osetia.
Idiots always have their own plans and patters.

That would be like if right before the 2003 invasion of Iraq Americans had been shown coverage of massed attacks by Iraqi forces on Kuwaiti citizens by 2500 massed Iraqi forces.

250 000, not 2500!!!

Who believe such crap? And of course that's not even considering that Iraq would have no authorization to operate into another country while everything you accuse Ukraine of was within the legal internationally recognized borders of Ukraine and would be on a much smaller scale than what happened to Grozny. Please Serb...

According to internationally recognized borders Ukraine is a part of USSR or a separatist republic itself.
Period!

You can't support separatism in one case and oppose it in another (unless you are a total lying bastard or an American).
Period!

A law existed for decades to ban the Kurdish language in Turkey and nobody here cared. Now we're supposed to be bothered by your claim of a similar law against Russian in Ukraine? But let's examine the legal situation over that time frame for use the Russian language in Ukraine. This is a matter of public record Serb.

the laws and policies that affected the status and use of Russian and other minority languages in Ukraine from 2013 to February 2021 were:

• The 2012 law On the principles of the State language policy [ uk], which granted regional language status to Russian and other minority languages. It allowed the use of minority languages in courts, schools and other government institutions in areas of Ukraine where the national minorities exceed 10% of the population. The 2012 law was supported by the governing Party of Regions and opposed by the opposition parties, who argued that the law undermined the role of the Ukrainian language, violated Article 10 of the Constitution, and was adopted with an irregular procedure.
• The 2014 repeal of the 2012 law by the Ukrainian Parliament, which was vetoed by the acting President Turchynov. Immediately after the 2014 Ukrainian revolution, on 23 February 2014, the Ukrainian Parliament voted to repeal the 2012 law. This decision was vetoed by the acting President Turchynov, who said that it was a mistake that could cause unrest among Russian speakers in Ukraine. The repeal was also criticized by Russia and some international organizations as a violation of minority rights.
• The 2017 law On education, which made Ukrainian the mandatory language of instruction in all schools from grade five onwards. The law also limited the use of minority languages in preschool and primary education to separate classes or groups within public institutions. The law aimed to promote Ukrainian as a state language and a tool for integration and social mobility. The law was challenged by several neighboring countries, such as Hungary, Romania, Poland, and Russia, who claimed that it violated the rights of their ethnic minorities in Ukraine. The law was also reviewed by the Venice Commission, which recommended some amendments to ensure a balance between linguistic diversity and social cohesion.
• The 2019 law On supporting the functioning of the Ukrainian language as the State language, which made the use of Ukrainian compulsory (totally or within quotas) in more than 30 spheres of public life, including public administration, electoral process, education, science, culture, media, economic and social life, health and care institutions, and activities of political parties. The law did not regulate private communication. Some exemptions were provided for the official languages of the European Union and for minority languages, with the exclusion of Russian, Belarusian and Yiddish. The law aimed to revitalize the Ukrainian language and reinforce national identity after Russia’s annexation of Crimea and military intervention in Donbas. The law was also reviewed by the Venice Commission, which expressed concern about its failure to protect minority languages.

Just, in what kind of fairy World you are living at, really?

You can be beaten nearly to death and sometimes to death for just speaking Russian at Ukraine.
It is a highly NAZIFIED society!
Period!

But whatever, right? You must know what your talking about and the Ukrainians must've banned the Russian language and half of Ukraine was ethnic Russians who spoke Russian as their first language and 90% used it as at least a second language. How in the hell would the Russian army not have rolled in greeted with flowers in that case?

LOL! We were!
By the people of Donbass (which is a historically Russian lands, populated by Russians, but given away to the Ukranian Soviet Socialistic Republic by Lenin in 1920's).


Once again - I have made a typo, not 2500, but 250 000 (two handred and fifty thousands!) were prepared to invide Donbass and had started all the preliminary actions like heavy bombardment of the other side positions (cease fire of Minsk agreement? Nah, we never heard about it).

90% local support wasn't good enough? The Russian military incompetency demonstrated by rolling a millitary superpower into a neighboring country in which they enjoyed 90% support and 50% shared national identity and somehow failing to conquer it, let alone hold onto their gains must be truly and hilariously profound. Russia will never live this down. Where is Ukraine getting their 8 waves of mobilization from to outnumber the Russian soldiers? I would think morale would be pretty low with 90% opposition to the Ukrainian state among their recruitment pool.

Where did you get your 90% support number?

Anyhow, you are LOL, really!
They live in a Nazi state, where they grab any male on the street and throw him to die at battlefield, including disabled people.
It's unbelievable that you have your eyes wide shut about all the Ukranian videos of forced mobilization.

Do you need me to provide you some example of how Ukranians themselves shot videos about male persons being beated and grabbed to war by Ukranian mobilization team, who are patrolling their cities?
You don't believe me (as any brainwashed Westerner, whom its media never shows that?)
Ok, I'll start with one:

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/xR_xPFoFMw4?feature=share

A male civilian person throwing stones to the "conscription" officer who wanted to enlist him.

This guy was lucky to get away.


Meanwhile in "Soviet" Russia there are over 1500 (one thousand and five hundred) are volunteering to the army EVERY DAY!!!
Without any coercion.

While Ukraine are losing about 1000 KIA daily!

Nobody anywhere says or ever said anything like 15k civilians killed. That total is almost the same as the total number of all conflict related fatalities on both sides of all civilians and all combatants. There is no conceivable way that the overwhelming majority of those killed were not soldiers. The absolute highest fraction of civilians I could find anywhere was 24% civillian. Most go with 15% civilians.

You can shove your UN estimates where it belongs to.

If your sources claim 15k was civilians what were the Donbas separatists and their Russian advisers and FSB leadership doing all that time? Were they just sitting with their thumbs up their arses watching the civilians die so they could show it on prime time Russian TV? Please....

They were trying to make sense to Ukranian masters (USA and EU).
The cease fire treaty was signed at Minsk in 2014. The whole point of the agreement was to give Donbass a wide autonomy, but keep them inside the Ukranian state.
You have supported this agreement (as long as Russians let Ukrainian forces out from pockets).
Acording to the confessions of Ukranian president Poroshenko, cancelour of Germany Merkel and president of France Oland whom signed this agreement, it was just a delay to build-up Ukranian army and resolve the conflict by force (as the time has shown - in 2014).
They, THEMSELVES have confessed about that!
All three of them have publicly said that they have lied to Russia!

LIED!!!


Same was during the Istanbul deal.

You simply CANNOT be trusted, Americans!
Because Ukraine is just your mad dog, wich decides nothing and all decisions are made in Washington D.C.
You are proven liars nobody wants to deal with.

If you're right Serb, the Ukrainians aren't very good at hitting civilian targets, judging by satellite photos by all sources over the years. They also apparently got a lot better at it after the Russian army showed up to liberate them

That is bullsh!t!
You are eating what they feed you!
Literally you eat sh!t!
And pretty happy to eat that sh!t!
They took a video of shelling of Donetsk and tell you that it's a Russian attack on civilian targets.
Same was in Syria.
You are living in world of lies, Geronimo!

I don't think civilians get a lot of options in surprise wars. I think there is plenty of evidence that Russia aggressively herds and corals the civillian populations when they occupy an area.

We don't really care what a Western brainwashed population think.

The civilians who ended up in Russia saw what was happening to the people staying and they knew there was only one place they could hope to reach while staying on Russian good graces. I also think that Ukrainian civilians who would rather die than go to Russia are not necessarily going to the EU. They feel they have something important to do for Ukraine first. We would expect Russia to be over-represented among refugee destinations if the overwhelming majority of those who want to stay or to stay and fight were sympathetic to Ukraine.

In any case refugee migration routes and destinations are overwhelmingly determine first by safety (which is often dominated by declared dictates of the controlling armed forces). When they have reached their first destination their options are dominated by the laws and policies of the government they find there.

You don't understand a simple thing, really!
There are 5.3 million of Ukranian refugees in Russia and 4.9 million in whole Europe!
And that number doesn't include millions who hd moved to Russia right after the coup of the 2014, 'cause they knew where it is going to.

You simply cannot understand that we are ONE PEOPLE!!!

And absolute majority of us have relatives, God damn you, VERY CLOSE RELATIVES at Ukraine, just as well as them have a very close relatives in Russia.
(to whom they have moved when YOU HAVE STARTED TO THROW A SH!T ON THE FAN IN 2014!!!)

My grandma was born at Kiev an a 100% Ukranian.
We just lived in ONE STATE FOR CENTURIES, God damn you!!!

BURN in HELL with all your American LIES!!!


"Our cause is just. The enemy will be defeated. Victory will be ours!!!"

[Geronimo]

You call an abundant democracy a country where all opposition parties are banned, where all opposition media are closed, where the main Christianty brach is banned and thousands of churches ond monasteries are seized, where you could be captured, tortured and killed without any trial, where you could be easily tied to the pole, pull down your pants and publically executed you for just SPEAKING YOUR NATIVE LANGUAGE!!!
A highly Nazified country where MAIN National heroes are Nazi collaborators, responsible for extermination of HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS of Jews, Russians, Poles, Gypsies during the WW2.

You support a ****** Nazis, because you are Nazis yourselves!

Period!

Point us to the specific pieces of Ukrainian legislation and specific executive orders behind all of these crimes and we can discuss them. These things are matters of public record.

[Geronimo]

Honestly, Plato,
Imagine for one second that half of the Mexico is historically populated by Americans, that the half of the Mexico is historically American lands and that the half of entire population of Mexico are ethnically Amercians, who have been constantly presecuted by the central authoritiees. With time pass, the things are going better and better:
Russia initiates, supplies and supports a coup and overthrows a legitimate democrtically elected president (whose only fault was that he was something in between USA and Russia and didn't became a complete Russian puppet). Then the new authorities ban English language and close all English schools and so on and when American populated part of Mexico revolts against this illegal coup, the junta sends an army to kill them.

And junta actually start to killing them in thousands with their bombs, tanks and guns!

Moreover, then Mexico publically declares that it will join a military alliance lead by Russia and proclaims that American are not humans at all and should be exterminated and it will place Russian weapon system on their territory to fulfill that goal.

So, the question is:

How many HOURS USA would have tolerated this sh!t before bringing Mexico to the Dark Ages and kill millions of those insane idiots?

Russia has tolerated this for at least 8 years and suggested a peacefull solution until the last moment!

So, FYI!

Let's assume the "coup" is just like the ukrainian "coup". Russia pays mexican snipers to kill 100 people on both sides of a protest and the Mexican congress then deposes the president with less than a quorum to do so via the usual process by exploiting a constitutional ambiguity to do so through unconventional legislation. Let's assume uncle Sam funds a separatist uprising in border provinces complete with US military advisors and a constant flow of US arms and US born CIA citizens in control of these "Separatists". Let's also assume that only about 3-4k max civilians were killed in Mexico and the rest were thousands of casualties among the soldiers of both sides.

The US would have no legal basis in this scenario to annex any portion of Mexico. The US also would bear responsibility for the casualties of the pseudo separatist war run by their CIA agent. If the US then launched a massive invasion to denazify Mexico because it was not a legitimate state and should have remained part of the US I would certainly oppose that. If the US just invaded to "restore peace" and end the war while annexing parts of Mexico due to the results of "elections" administered by soldiers I would oppose that. If the US invaded to "restore peace" without any international mandate even if they weren't going to annex parts of Mexico, I would oppose that.

Perhaps, if the US had ironclad evidence of direct attacks against civilians I might accept US stand off weapon attacks against the forces in the act of attacking civilians so they have an incentive to make better use of their military resources. I would *not* accept a vast campaign of conquest 2003 Iraq style against the entirety of Mexico.

So what would you Serb, and you Berz, advocate in the hypothetical scenario Serb sets for the US here?

[Serb]

Unless you will become a sane country.

[Serb]

Well, we will show you how not humans we are!

[Geronimo]

Well, you know, when you Westerners were creaming your pants about the "peaceful protesters" at Maidan in 2014, the "peaceful protesters" who shot and burned alive police officers with molotov coctails, I told you in one of the threads here that very soon your "peaceful Maidan protesters" will start to slaughter the one, who are opposing the coup with artillery, tank and aviation instead of the Molotov cocktails and you will apploud to them!!!
And my prediction was absolutely correct back then in 2014, weeks before the new coup illegal Kiev authrities gad started their military campaign over Donbass.
You, Westerners have a memory as great, as a memory of aquarium fish!
You are so primitive and so easily manipulated by your media.
And you - Americans are the champions of that! You oversimplify fking EVERYTHING!
In your artificially created univers there is only black and white.
I've seen that many times here during the last 23 years I am a member of this community.
In August 2008, I have started a thread "This is war" or something like that, where I have outraged about Gergian killing of Osetian civilians and Russian peacekeepers and predicted that your media will portray the upcoming war as Russian invasion to innocent Georgia.
And I was right again - everything happened just like as I have predicted.
One week before the February 24, 2022, I have started a thread, where I predicted once again that there will be war, because Ukranian have ammased 2500 troops and started a heavy bombardment of Donbass cities, thus starting the war already. In this thread I have predicted that you will not notice that and will start to cream your pants about the Russian agression, when Russia will finally intervenue, like you did in 2008.
I was right once again!

You don't need truth, all you need is your media propaganda!!!

Back then I have created another thread to show YOUR PROPAGANDA LIES to justify your previous wars and predicted that it will be the same this time!
BECAUSE YOU FKERS NEVER LEARN!!!
And can't do 2+2!

That is because you are imbeciles.
They have made you imbeciles on purpose!
They are making you imbeciles since your birth, by not giving you a proper education and by brainwashing you with their media on daily basis.
You just don't notice that, but "sad, but true"!

I'm glad you've stuck around 23 years to discuss. Not often civilly I have to admit, but you still discuss.

What cities did the Ukrainians hit with massed artillery?

Was it ok for Grozny to be hit with massed artillery? You hold up Grozny as a literal shining example because after it was flattened and the local leadership subverted to Moscow, Moscow funded a huge rebuilding. Was Ukraine ever given a chance to do any huge rebuilding in Donbas. Well, not anywhere the separatists kept control of. But the Ukrainians did regain control of Mariupol, with plenty of Azov military formation credit for the job. They turned Mariupol into a gleaming gem like Grozny. If they just wanted to kill ethnic Russians, why would they spruce up one of their largest cities like that? Next, Russia then turned it into a totally destroyed rubble field. Nice job. Russia is nowhere near rebuilding it to the level it was February 2021.

One week before the February 24, 2022, 2500 Ukrainian troops were massed to start a heavy bombardment of Donbass cities. What an incredible joke. Do you not see that in that same time frame over 100,000 (over 200k in hindsight) Russian troops were massed to start heavy bombardment of all Ukrainian cities anywhere near any part of Russia, Belarus, or the Donbass? Who is going to believe the Ukrainians wanted to attack the Donbas but would wait until there were 100K+ massed Russian forces all around them to do it? That would be like if right before the 2003 invasion of Iraq Americans had been shown coverage of massed attacks by Iraqi forces on Kuwaiti citizens by 2500 massed Iraqi forces. Who believe such crap? And of course that's not even considering that Iraq would have no authorization to operate into another country while everything you accuse Ukraine of was within the legal internationally recognized borders of Ukraine and would be on a much smaller scale than what happened to Grozny. Please Serb...

So, back to your questions.


Who told you it didn't happen?

Right after the coup, new Kiev authorities have propased a law to ban the Russian language completely (90% of Ukranian poplation are Russian speakers and about a half of Ukranian population are ethnic Russians, living on the historically RUSSIAN territories, gifted to Ukraine by Russian Tzars and inhuman Bolshevicks) and then sent an army to suppress the Donbass region, which has revolved against an inconstitutional coup.

And they have killed and terrorized the civilian Russian population on purpose!

15 thousand killed civilians is a number from nowhere. The real casualities among Donbass civilians are greater.
They have come to Donbass in 2014 with the only one goal - to clear this territory from the local Russian population. Period.
You (The Westerners) whine that they have killed so few and didn't succeed back then?
Well, that is because we didn't let them to do so and crushed the motherfkers so hard, they ran with tail between their legs begging for mercy at Minsk.
That is the answer.

A law existed for decades to ban the Kurdish language in Turkey and nobody here cared. Now we're supposed to be bothered by your claim of a similar law against Russian in Ukraine? But let's examine the legal situation over that time frame for use the Russian language in Ukraine. This is a matter of public record Serb.

the laws and policies that affected the status and use of Russian and other minority languages in Ukraine from 2013 to February 2021 were:

• The 2012 law On the principles of the State language policy [ uk], which granted regional language status to Russian and other minority languages. It allowed the use of minority languages in courts, schools and other government institutions in areas of Ukraine where the national minorities exceed 10% of the population. The 2012 law was supported by the governing Party of Regions and opposed by the opposition parties, who argued that the law undermined the role of the Ukrainian language, violated Article 10 of the Constitution, and was adopted with an irregular procedure.
• The 2014 repeal of the 2012 law by the Ukrainian Parliament, which was vetoed by the acting President Turchynov. Immediately after the 2014 Ukrainian revolution, on 23 February 2014, the Ukrainian Parliament voted to repeal the 2012 law. This decision was vetoed by the acting President Turchynov, who said that it was a mistake that could cause unrest among Russian speakers in Ukraine. The repeal was also criticized by Russia and some international organizations as a violation of minority rights.
• The 2017 law On education, which made Ukrainian the mandatory language of instruction in all schools from grade five onwards. The law also limited the use of minority languages in preschool and primary education to separate classes or groups within public institutions. The law aimed to promote Ukrainian as a state language and a tool for integration and social mobility. The law was challenged by several neighboring countries, such as Hungary, Romania, Poland, and Russia, who claimed that it violated the rights of their ethnic minorities in Ukraine. The law was also reviewed by the Venice Commission, which recommended some amendments to ensure a balance between linguistic diversity and social cohesion.
• The 2019 law On supporting the functioning of the Ukrainian language as the State language, which made the use of Ukrainian compulsory (totally or within quotas) in more than 30 spheres of public life, including public administration, electoral process, education, science, culture, media, economic and social life, health and care institutions, and activities of political parties. The law did not regulate private communication. Some exemptions were provided for the official languages of the European Union and for minority languages, with the exclusion of Russian, Belarusian and Yiddish. The law aimed to revitalize the Ukrainian language and reinforce national identity after Russia’s annexation of Crimea and military intervention in Donbas. The law was also reviewed by the Venice Commission, which expressed concern about its failure to protect minority languages.

But whatever, right? You must know what your talking about and the Ukrainians must've banned the Russian language and half of Ukraine was ethnic Russians who spoke Russian as their first language and 90% used it as at least a second language. How in the hell would the Russian army not have rolled in greeted with flowers in that case? 90% local support wasn't good enough? The Russian military incompetency demonstrated by rolling a millitary superpower into a neighboring country in which they enjoyed 90% support and 50% shared national identity and somehow failing to conquer it, let alone hold onto their gains must be truly and hilariously profound. Russia will never live this down. Where is Ukraine getting their 8 waves of mobilization from to outnumber the Russian soldiers? I would think morale would be pretty low with 90% opposition to the Ukrainian state among their recruitment pool.

Nobody anywhere says or ever said anything like 15k civilians killed. That total is almost the same as the total number of all conflict related fatalities on both sides of all civilians and all combatants. There is no conceivable way that the overwhelming majority of those killed were not soldiers. The absolute highest fraction of civilians I could find anywhere was 24% civillian. Most go with 15% civilians. If your sources claim 15k was civilians what were the Donbas separatists and their Russian advisers and FSB leadership doing all that time? Were they just sitting with their thumbs up their arses watching the civilians die so they could show it on prime time Russian TV? Please....

That is a lie of Western propaganda!
Ukranian did and still do hit civilian targets intentionally to terrorize the population.
On a mass scale!
Every day!
They are intentionally killing women and children using YOUR WEAPONS!!!
You bloody motherfkers!!!

If you're right Serb, the Ukrainians aren't very good at hitting civilian targets, judging by satellite photos by all sources over the years. They also apparently got a lot better at it after the Russian army showed up to liberate them

I bet you are not aware of the fact that most of the Ukranian refugees had fled to Russia, not to EU!
How can you explain that more Ukranian people had fled to the Russia, which is a "bloody agressor", than fled to the West, which is an "holy ally and saviour" (a master of stupid nazi Ukranian cannon fodder)?

I don't think civilians get a lot of options in surprise wars. I think there is plenty of evidence that Russia aggressively herds and corals the civillian populations when they occupy an area. The civilians who ended up in Russia saw what was happening to the people staying and they knew there was only one place they could hope to reach while staying on Russian good graces. I also think that Ukrainian civilians who would rather die than go to Russia are not necessarily going to the EU. They feel they have something important to do for Ukraine first. We would expect Russia to be over-represented among refugee destinations if the overwhelming majority of those who want to stay or to stay and fight were sympathetic to Ukraine.

In any case refugee migration routes and destinations are overwhelmingly determine first by safety (which is often dominated by declared dictates of the controlling armed forces). When they have reached their first destination their options are dominated by the laws and policies of the government they find there.

[Geronimo]

Geronimo said the vote didn't meet the constitutional requirements and the coup was the massacre...the coup was the massacre. Given what happened and how Ukrainians felt about it notwithstanding your assessment, how did you get the moral high ground to send armed Nazis to kill them?

No I said the constitutionality was legitimately debatable and I said it fell into an area of constitutional ambiguity. I said that legal scholars thought the constitutional grounds for the route to removal of the president that the Ukrainian Verkhovna Rada resorted to using with were dubious. Not illegal. I Also speculated that the convenient disappearance of just enough voters to deny the quorum for straightforward removal by impeachment was extremely suspicious, especially in light of the fact that all of the votes from those who were left to vote were unanimously anti-Yanukovych. Berz it was you who quoted my post and said "in other words illegal then."

The difference between constitutionally dubious and illegal is huge. especially in this case. Calling the removal illegal is about as shaky as calling the swearing in of President Bush illegal on the basis of Bush v. Gore.

What happened Berz was a constitutional crisis arising from constitutional ambiguity was resolved politically and entirely through legal channels. not violently.

Also, If you persist in calling the removal process illegal I hope you will be consistent and call just about every initiative Trump took in association with the 2020 presidential election from election night to at least 06Jan2021 illegal as well. The legal basis for doing so is far more robust.

[Serb]

Get back to your roots America and become a normal country of hard working talanted people!

[Bereta_Eder]

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