Prediction Thread: When Will Ukraine Conquer Russia

[Ming]

8 years was long enough I guess... Putin invaded for 2 reasons: stop Kiev's attack on the Donbas and ensure Ukraine doesn't become a Nato platform for missiles along the border manned by Azov

Nice way to stop an attack... attack yourself and kill and rape far more people. Great Job.
And they attacked for only one reason... A land grab/empire building. It's obvious they never cared about the people.
But please keep pushing the "Russians are saviors" narrative...

[BlackCat]

I somehow find this guy interesting - he's kind of boring , but then again, he is german

[Berzerker]

Putin did not invade because Trump was weakening NATO. Once Trump was gone and NATO started to strengthen its cohesiveness, there was nothing to be gained from waiting anymore.

8 years was long enough I guess... Putin invaded for 2 reasons: stop Kiev's attack on the Donbas and ensure Ukraine doesn't become a Nato platform for missiles along the border manned by Azov

[Berzerker]

WTF would NATO sign a treaty forbidding Ukraine from ever joining? Already, in Annexing Crimea Putin already had violated the United Nations Charter, the1975 Helsinki Final Act: and the 1997 Russian-Ukrainian Friendship Treaty - just to mention fully binding treaties to say nothing of written commitments like the Budapest Memorandum on Security Assurances. In signing the treaty in an attempt to placate an unapologetic treaty breaker still in office what possible safety would that have offered to Ukrainians? Anybody in NATO could have literally officially wiped their dirty arses with any draft treaty and it would not extend the tiniest culpability to them for any of Russia's actions. In any case, since logically the the only way that Russia could carry out a threat to invade Ukraine intended to coerce NATO into compliance would be by overtly breaking several treaties, what value would signing the treaty possibly have for NATO since the other party has already indicated that it does not recognize treaties as providing any constraint on its actions? It would be incredibly stupid to sign any treaty in response to a promise to refrain from a certain treaty breaking behavior.


Anyway when you said "draft treaty" I thought you were referring to the quasi-fictional early 2022 draft treaty that supposedly made Putin leave Kiev. You talk about that far more often. Please provide more context.

To spare Ukraine and the people of the Donbas this war, I thought peace was our goal It aint like we actually observe treaties but we could have easily prevented this war if we allowed "democracy" in Ukraine. If Biden was serious about peace he wouldn't have been telling Zelensky to lie about potential Nato membership. I dont think you have a leg to stand on as far as laws and charters, the 2014 coup and slaughter of protesters wasn't legal and no amount of lipstick will cover that pig. People in eastern Ukraine rejected it and Joe Biden doesn't get to send Nazis after them and call it democracy. Russia spent 7-8 years watching Kiev and Washington break the Minsk treaties and now we know why, it was a sham by the west to arm Ukraine. Thats why we kept the war in the Donbas going, couldn't make peace and expect Russia to invade.

[Berzerker]

peace between the Taliban and us

[Berzerker]

Gee... calling Biden "Brandon" sure shows your biases... Blaming Biden for the Drug Wars and creating the Cartels...
And you keep talking about this supposed peace deal? Exactly what was it? Was it one that would have left Ukraine's border intact or was it some massive land steal by Russia... Please provide us with a copy of this supposed deal... and some actual proof that Biden wanted a war.
You still seem to want to show Russia as some kind of good guy who was just trying to protect people, instead of a land grabbing empire who killed and raped the people they claim they were protecting.

I call him Brandon because a reporter intentionally mistranslated a crowd's chant to hide what they were saying, kinda exemplifies the state of our media. But yes, Brandon is competing with Shrub, Nixon and LBJ for the worst president in my life. Well, Obama and Clinton are up there too, they killed a couple million or so. Biden has been writing our drug war laws for a half century, alcohol prohibition created cartels within days and weeks of the law's enforcement. When Prohibition was repealed the homicide rate dropped 13 years in a row. Joe Biden has not only destroyed black and brown communities across the USA he created the slaughterhouses south of the border that result in waves of immigrants at the border escaping the mayhem. Kinda like how Obama created a wave of refugees flooding into Europe thanks to his "Arab Spring" destroying several countries.

Whatever the peace deal was it involved Putin withdrawing the Russian army from Kiev. No, Ukraine would not get Crimea or the Donbas. If it was a land steal Putin wouldn't have waited 8 years, he wanted Minsk where the Donbas remains in Ukraine but with greater autonomy so Azov didn't get to run eastern Ukraine. Maybe we should be asking the people of the Donbas and Crimea what they want, I'd prefer letting them decide who is good or bad. If Azov was actually defending them from a Russian invasion you'd have an argument, but the Donbas was at war with Azov before Russia intervened on their behalf.

[pchang]

You actually believe Trump made peace in Afghanistan? Wow. That explains a lot.

[Berzerker]

if Biden obviously wanted this war (however we come to that whacky conclusion) why didn't he want the war in Afghanistan? Even if Biden *did* want this war what difference would that make if Putin *didn't* want it?

Trump made peace in Afghanistan and no amount of propaganda would convince Americans of the wisdom in restarting the war, but the neocons tried. Remember the Russian bounties on our soldiers? That was during Trump's effort to end the war. Given the extensive pattern of these people accusing others of what they're doing I wouldn't be surprised if the US had/has been rewarding Mujahideen and Ukrainian soldiers for killing Russians. LIndsey did say it was the best $$$ we've spent and I keep hearing how great it is to spend so little money to kill so many Russians. Putin wanted to end the war in the Donbas, that wasn't going to happen without pressuring Kiev. He did and Zelensky was dealing and Biden sent Boris over to repeal their deal.

[pchang]

Putin did not invade because Trump was weakening NATO. Once Trump was gone and NATO started to strengthen its cohesiveness, there was nothing to be gained from waiting anymore.

[Geronimo]

https://youtu.be/Sw0aZFYdGwo

Nato secy general admits rejecting draft treaty to spare Ukraine this war

propaganda and narratives... This is why BluAnon is more misinformed than QAnon

WTF would NATO sign a treaty forbidding Ukraine from ever joining? Already, in Annexing Crimea Putin already had violated the United Nations Charter, the1975 Helsinki Final Act: and the 1997 Russian-Ukrainian Friendship Treaty - just to mention fully binding treaties to say nothing of written commitments like the Budapest Memorandum on Security Assurances. In signing the treaty in an attempt to placate an unapologetic treaty breaker still in office what possible safety would that have offered to Ukrainians? Anybody in NATO could have literally officially wiped their dirty arses with any draft treaty and it would not extend the tiniest culpability to them for any of Russia's actions. In any case, since logically the the only way that Russia could carry out a threat to invade Ukraine intended to coerce NATO into compliance would be by overtly breaking several treaties, what value would signing the treaty possibly have for NATO since the other party has already indicated that it does not recognize treaties as providing any constraint on its actions? It would be incredibly stupid to sign any treaty in response to a promise to refrain from a certain treaty breaking behavior.


Anyway when you said "draft treaty" I thought you were referring to the quasi-fictional early 2022 draft treaty that supposedly made Putin leave Kiev. You talk about that far more often. Please provide more context.

[Geronimo]

Well, aside from arming fine people in 2014 to kill ethnic Russians in eastern Ukraine I can see more dots. But consider that for a minute, if Russia and/or China got control of the Mexican govt and armed "nationalists" to kill people along our border (actually we created the cartels with Joe's drug war) wouldn't people see they are trying to provoke the US into defending those people or attacking their killers or both? Southwest Americans especially would be demanding Biden protect their kin on the other side of the border. Eastern Ukrainians were begging Russia for help and got only enough to
stop Kiev's advance. Putin repeatedly rejected their efforts to leave Ukraine and/or join Russia.

So if we ignore Ukrainian history from 2014-22 and all those moderate Ukrainians constantly hailing cabs we still have the admission of Nato's secy gen that Biden rejected Russia's offer of peace shortly before ramping up an invasion force in the winter of '21-22. And ofc he's done nothing at all to promote peace, instead he blew up a pipeline polluting the Baltic Sea and ramped up the war instead of pursuing peace in the spring of '22. Nope, he sent Boris over to read the riot act to Zelensky days after Russia withdrew from Kiev. Course western media lied about that too, cant have the world thinking peace was knocking at the door and Brandon shot the peacemakers.

What has Biden done to prevent this war? Trump prevented it, why did Biden fail so badly? Trump negotiated peace in Afghanistan and had us scheduled to leave in the spring before the fighting season. Biden comes in and delays the withdrawal into the fighting season, leaves behind a massive arsenal for the Taliban, and gives them control of security in Kabul for the evacuation and we see how that turned out. Biden's competing with Bush for worst president this century. Not surprisingly he was instrumental in lying us into Shrub's invasion of Iraq.

Where did Azov or any other Ukrainian originating formation *ever* indicate, even internally, killing ethnic Russians was a goal? If that *was* a goal why did Russia pass the Ukrainian Nazi 8+ years of ethnic Russian kill totals so soon after the start of the special operation?

if killing ethnic Russians was anybody's goal with state funding it would have gotten a lot farther a lot faster than maximum 14k after 8 years (assuming all casualties were purely people killed because they were ethnic Russians).

I can't believe you fall for this absurd BS Berz..

If I suspected a Russian or Chinese plot to provoke a war with Mexico by killing people along the US border I sure as hell would not accept the US annexing parts of Mexico and attempting to erase Mexico as a country. OMG. The first thing I'd do is avoid war with Mexico. That would be especially easy if 100% of all of the deaths were in Mexico. especially if it was a maximum of 14k casualties from all losses on all sides of the conflicts in Mexico over 8+ years. How can you not see that Putin fighting in Ukraine would be stupid if you're right? The only eastern Ukrainians "begging" for help were known FSB agents. Not even Ukraine born, much less the Donbas.

You claim Ukraine is a puppet of the US. What kind of puppet would be better controlled with a visit from Boris? How does that make any sense whatsoever? Is there any leverage or control over the puppet that a visit from Boris could possibly enhance?

If Trump had pulled out of Afghanistan (as he planned) and not pulled a U-turn as soon as the Taliban started to seize control, I daresay Putin would have invaded while Trump was president as well.

[Ming]

Gee... calling Biden "Brandon" sure shows your biases... Blaming Biden for the Drug Wars and creating the Cartels...
And you keep talking about this supposed peace deal? Exactly what was it? Was it one that would have left Ukraine's border intact or was it some massive land steal by Russia... Please provide us with a copy of this supposed deal... and some actual proof that Biden wanted a war.
You still seem to want to show Russia as some kind of good guy who was just trying to protect people, instead of a land grabbing empire who killed and raped the people they claim they were protecting.

[Geronimo]

Biden wanted this war... aint that obvious by now? Yes, Boris showed up in Ukraine for a 1 on 1 with Zelensky to nix the peace deal. Or did he arrive to tell him Biden supported the peace deal? Which one do you think is most likely?

if Biden obviously wanted this war (however we come to that whacky conclusion) why didn't he want the war in Afghanistan? Even if Biden *did* want this war what difference would that make if Putin *didn't* want it?

[Berzerker]

Well, aside from arming fine people in 2014 to kill ethnic Russians in eastern Ukraine I can see more dots. But consider that for a minute, if Russia and/or China got control of the Mexican govt and armed "nationalists" to kill people along our border (actually we created the cartels with Joe's drug war) wouldn't people see they are trying to provoke the US into defending those people or attacking their killers or both? Southwest Americans especially would be demanding Biden protect their kin on the other side of the border. Eastern Ukrainians were begging Russia for help and got only enough to
stop Kiev's advance. Putin repeatedly rejected their efforts to leave Ukraine and/or join Russia.

So if we ignore Ukrainian history from 2014-22 and all those moderate Ukrainians constantly hailing cabs we still have the admission of Nato's secy gen that Biden rejected Russia's offer of peace shortly before ramping up an invasion force in the winter of '21-22. And ofc he's done nothing at all to promote peace, instead he blew up a pipeline polluting the Baltic Sea and ramped up the war instead of pursuing peace in the spring of '22. Nope, he sent Boris over to read the riot act to Zelensky days after Russia withdrew from Kiev. Course western media lied about that too, cant have the world thinking peace was knocking at the door and Brandon shot the peacemakers.

What has Biden done to prevent this war? Trump prevented it, why did Biden fail so badly? Trump negotiated peace in Afghanistan and had us scheduled to leave in the spring before the fighting season. Biden comes in and delays the withdrawal into the fighting season, leaves behind a massive arsenal for the Taliban, and gives them control of security in Kabul for the evacuation and we see how that turned out. Biden's competing with Bush for worst president this century. Not surprisingly he was instrumental in lying us into Shrub's invasion of Iraq.

[Ming]

Just sprouting your opinion as usual... with no facts to actually support them.
Please provide your "evidence" that Biden wanted war... Oh, that' right, you can't.. All you can do is make silly assumptions.