Is this the core belief of Atheism?

[Aeson]

Yet your statements clearly convey your misunderstanding that physical discomfort is mutually exclusive with feeling good about your actions.

[Kidlicious]

I wasn’t saying it, but the second is true. Technically, people do not behave in their own self interest, they generally behave in their perception of their self interest at the moment the decision is made, which very often is not optimally in their self interest, especially in cases of short term vs long term self interest being at odds with each other. And sometimes for other reasons which have little to nothing to do with self interest (clumsiness, involuntary spasms, turrets, reflexes, etc)

You're kind of being evasive. When I listen to atheists like Christopher Hitchens I know where that comes from, philosophers like David Hume and Adam Smith, because they want to present themselves as the objective thinkers. But at the same time they want to claim that religion doesn't help people do good. It doesn't work. Religious people have more reason to do good.

[Proteus_MST]

This is where you are wrong. When I was a child I thought like a child. But when I became a man I put childish things behind me. Now I know the joy of the Holy Spirit doing good and subjecting myself to the will of God. Now I do far more good, and I'm happier.

If I speak in the tongues of men or of angels, but do not have love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal.
If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing.
If I give all I possess to the poor and give over my body to hardship that I may boast, but do not have love, I gain nothing.

[Kidlicious]

Yet your statements clearly convey your misunderstanding that physical discomfort is mutually exclusive with feeling good about your actions.

No. Maybe it's you that doesn't understand rationality is cost/benefit analysis. If you torture an atheist they will generally do whatever bad thing you want them to. Are you saying that that physical discomfort does not determine what they will do?

[Kidlicious]

If I speak in the tongues of men or of angels, but do not have love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal.
If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing.
If I give all I possess to the poor and give over my body to hardship that I may boast, but do not have love, I gain nothing.

[Ming]

If you torture an atheist they will generally do whatever bad thing you want them to.

Please cite some source that proves atheists will respond any differently to torture than religious people
Or are you just making stuff up yet again...

[spambot]

The core belief of Atheism is that there are no gods.

[Kidlicious]

Please cite some source that proves atheists will respond any differently to torture than religious people
Or are you just making stuff up yet again...

Some Roman Catholic writers (such as Thomas Cahill) continue to use a system of degrees of martyrdom that was developed in early Christianity.^[27]Some of these degrees bestow the title of martyr on those who sacrifice large elements of their lives alongside those who sacrifice life itself. These degrees were mentioned by Pope Gregory I in Homilia in Evangelia, he wrote of "three modes of martyrdom, designated by the colors, red, blue (or green), and white."^[28]A believer was bestowed the title of red martyr due to either torture or violent death by religious persecution. The term "white martyrdom" was used by the Church Father Jerome, "for those such as desert hermits who aspired to the condition of martyrdom through strict asceticism."^[28] Blue (or green) martyrdom "involves the denial of desires, as through fasting and penitent labors without necessarily implying a journey or complete withdrawal from life".^[28]

-wiki

[Kidlicious]

I actuality expect someone to post an example of an atheist martyr as I believe that some atheists might make a similar sacrafice, but my point is that it won't feel good.

[Ming]

While interesting... how about next time you actually post something that proves your point instead of just posting something not relevant
Still waiting for some proof of your pulled out of your ass claim

[spambot]

If humans only did what felt good, no baby would survive.

[Aeson]

But at the same time they want to claim that religion doesn't help people do good. It doesn't work. Religious people have more reason to do good.

No, that is obviously false. Religious people have reason to do what their religious leaders/texts/personal beliefs (usually in that order for organized religion) tell them God wants them to do. Sometimes that is good ... sometimes it is horrible. Sometimes it's "more" than other reasons like logic, sometimes less. There's a wide gamut here depending on the religion, what it teaches, who is teaching it, who believes it, and how much they believe it.

Look at Islamic terrorists ... they are doing what they think their God wants from them. It's not good. Neither were the Spanish Inquisitors doing good, yet they were following their religious convictions. Neither were the Israelites invading Palestine (murdering women and children in the OT) doing good, yet they were doing what they claimed God commanded them to do.

[Aeson]

No. Maybe it's you that doesn't understand rationality is cost/benefit analysis. If you torture an atheist they will generally do whatever bad thing you want them to. Are you saying that that physical discomfort does not determine what they will do?

I'm not aware of any studies which have been done which show a difference between atheists and believers in torture results. Please enlighten us!

Rationality is cost/benefit ... that is true. What you are continuing to miss is hat there is a great benefit for doing good. Those benefits are why I spend most of my life and income helping the less fortunate without needing God to tell me to do so. It's also why I don't just perma ban you for being a horrible moron and/or delete this site for being unprofitable (in regards to my time spent on it). I don't need God to threaten me with Hell or bribe me with Heaven to do good, I do it for good's sake. I am sorry that you do not even begin to comprehend that doing good is actually good for you even without a God.

[Aeson]

I actuality expect someone to post an example of an atheist martyr as I believe that some atheists might make a similar sacrafice, but my point is that it won't feel good.

You still don't understand the difference between physical comfort/pain ... and feeling good about what you do.

[Kidlicious]

No, that is obviously false. Religious people have reason to do what their religious leaders/texts/personal beliefs (usually in that order for organized religion) tell them God wants them to do. Sometimes that is good ... sometimes it is horrible. Sometimes it's "more" than other reasons like logic, sometimes less. There's a wide gamut here depending on the religion, what it teaches, who is teaching it, who believes it, and how much they believe it.

Look at Islamic terrorists ... they are doing what they think their God wants from them. It's not good. Neither were the Spanish Inquisitors doing good, yet they were following their religious convictions. Neither were the Israelites invading Palestine (murdering women and children in the OT) doing good, yet they were doing what they claimed God commanded them to do.

Atheists also do bad things. Hitchins' books are very bad. They murder more people in fact, historically speaking. So this reasoning doesn't get us anywhere.

But there is a different thinking that goes on when a person does good than there is when a person does bad. I'm talking about subjecting yourself to a good that is greater than yourself, not being selfish. Now, I will grant you this, that if I had to kill, which would not give me a good feeling (I know this because I have been hunting and don't like it), I would suffer, but it's still not really what the issue is here. I'm talking about the psychology of not being selfish (rational from an atheist perspective). When an atheist says that you should do good because it makes you feel good, they mean that it stops there. You don't have to do any good beyond that, because that doesn't feel good.