Is this the core belief of Atheism?

[Berzerker]

When a rich young man asked to join Jesus he was told to give away his wealth, he couldn't do it. He could do things that didn't impose hardship on himself like obey the 10 Commandments, but there was a limit he'd endure to do good. Is charity selfish? If I do good to build up my treasure in Heaven, I'm not doing good for good's sake, I'm doing it for a reward. If I'm an atheist and feel good I'm still being rewarded and I dont know if we can remove that motive from the calculations we make when deciding to do good. Sure, I'm happy someone in need benefited from my actions, but I am happy and thats the point. But between the atheist and theist, its the atheist who is less selfish. The theist receives the same reward as the atheist but wants more - the theist wants eternal life in paradise in exchange for their good deeds.

[rah]

While I agree, just because you're a theist doesn't mean your main motivation is eternal life. As with everything, it depends on the individual and not whether they're a theist. But with an atheist, we know that eternal reward is not the motivation.

[Proteus_MST]

The story of the rich young man reminds me of something similare that can be found in Buddhism:
Attachment (to wealth, possessions etc.) is the cause of suffering

It also reminds me of how wrong prosperity theology (which, after all, seems to be the favorite form of christianity for a lot of people surrounding Trump) actually is

[-Jrabbit]

This thread still lives? Gah!

Kid keeps trying to describe atheism as if it's a belief system. It is not. There's no pope of atheism, no board of elders, no weekly services, no sacred writings or creeds. It's just a random pile of people who don't believe in God. This is why atheism doesn't "explain such behavior."

Shouldn't be a hard concept, but Kid are so driven toward black-and-white generalizing that this basic fact apparently just doesn't occur to him. Which is why this entire thread, while refreshing for its lack of US politics, is pretty worthless.

[Kidlicious]

When a rich young man asked to join Jesus he was told to give away his wealth, he couldn't do it. He could do things that didn't impose hardship on himself like obey the 10 Commandments, but there was a limit he'd endure to do good. Is charity selfish? If I do good to build up my treasure in Heaven, I'm not doing good for good's sake, I'm doing it for a reward. If I'm an atheist and feel good I'm still being rewarded and I dont know if we can remove that motive from the calculations we make when deciding to do good. Sure, I'm happy someone in need benefited from my actions, but I am happy and thats the point. But between the atheist and theist, its the atheist who is less selfish. The theist receives the same reward as the atheist but wants more - the theist wants eternal life in paradise in exchange for their good deeds.

Ok I agree with you about 1 thing and I disagree with you about 4.

Disagreements

1) Is it selfish to survive? That's the definition you are using here for selfish. In that case, yeah most of us are selfish. Otherwise ...

2) Even if becoming a Christian were a selfish thing to do, which the atheist chooses not to do, Christians are commanded to humble themselves. That's a big commandment too. Atheists have no such rule to humble themselves, so they won't even feel good about following the rule to humble themselves since there is no such rule.

3) Doing good for selfish reasons is still doing good. As you say, we are all selfish. So how would anyone do good for any other reason than selfishness?

4) Christians don't get into Heaven by doing good deeds. They can't anymore than anyone else. Eternal life is a free gift. The price has been paid. The Son has set us free. This is central to Christianity.

Agreement

1) This is a very good example from the Bible for this issue, and you bring up very good points about it, showing an understanding of the context. For example, you are right that he could not give up his wealth. No one can earn eternal reward. They can only accept the free gift.

[Kidlicious]

This thread still lives? Gah!

Kid keeps trying to describe atheism as if it's a belief system. It is not. There's no pope of atheism, no board of elders, no weekly services, no sacred writings or creeds. It's just a random pile of people who don't believe in God. This is why atheism doesn't "explain such behavior."

Shouldn't be a hard concept, but Kid are so driven toward black-and-white generalizing that this basic fact apparently just doesn't occur to him. Which is why this entire thread, while refreshing for its lack of US politics, is pretty worthless.

Didn't know that a belief system required a Pope.

[Kidlicious]

The story of the rich young man reminds me of something similare that can be found in Buddhism:
Attachment (to wealth, possessions etc.) is the cause of suffering

It also reminds me of how wrong prosperity theology (which, after all, seems to be the favorite form of christianity for a lot of people surrounding Trump) actually is

Well maybe in Western Buddhism you only have to shed your attachment to much wealth, but the way I understand it is, in Eastern Buddhism, you must shed your attachment to everything. So Western Buddhism is like Cheap Grace Christianity.

[Ming]

Didn't know that a belief system required a Pope.

Typical Kidiot... Ignoring the point of the post and just making a meaningless response.
That's what he does when he really has no response because anything else he would say would just prove once again that he is pulling stuff out of his ass

[Berzerker]

4) Christians don't get into Heaven by doing good deeds. They can't anymore than anyone else. Eternal life is a free gift. The price has been paid. The Son has set us free. This is central to Christianity.

What did Jesus say about forgiveness? Forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us. So is it really free? No, we have to forgive others. When Jesus instructed his followers on prayer, he told them to do so quietly in their rooms or in seclusion. Do not stand on the street corners and synagogues and pray. Jesus' message was loaded with dos and donts.

[Proteus_MST]

Well maybe in Western Buddhism you only have to shed your attachment to much wealth, but the way I understand it is, in Eastern Buddhism, you must shed your attachment to everything. So Western Buddhism is like Cheap Grace Christianity.

I agree (with regards to eastenr Buddhism) ... i.e. that "Attachment" doesn't only include wealth, but also can include the "loved ones", habits, in principle everything you could grow attached to
That was contained within the "etc." in my listing

Not to grow too attached to your parents and siblings actually also is reflected in a passage in the New Testament ... the one where Jesus said that only people can become his disciples if they are willing to havte their parents, siblings, even their own lifes

[Kidlicious]

I agree (with regards to eastenr Buddhism) ... i.e. that "Attachment" doesn't only include wealth, but also can include the "loved ones", habits, in principle everything you could grow attached to
That was contained within the "etc." in my listing

Not to grow too attached to your parents and siblings actually also is reflected in a passage in the New Testament ... the one where Jesus said that only people can become his disciples if they are willing to havte their parents, siblings, even their own lifes

But you don't shed your attachments to your family to be a Christian. You have to miss them in the case that you are separated from them.

[Kidlicious]

What did Jesus say about forgiveness? Forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us. So is it really free? No, we have to forgive others. When Jesus instructed his followers on prayer, he told them to do so quietly in their rooms or in seclusion. Do not stand on the street corners and synagogues and pray. Jesus' message was loaded with dos and donts.

But doing the dos doesn't earn your eternal reward. It's more him giving you the example and saying if you follow me this is what you must do.

[Berzerker]

yeah, this is what you must do - do this, dont do that

[ZEE]

Indeed.

[spambot]

Why does a Christian have the flag of a Jewish state as his avatar

[Kidlicious]

Why does a Christian have the flag of a Jewish state as his avatar

To prevent Holocaust II