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**Aeson** · October 24, 2018, 23:29

Originally posted by Kidicious View Post

There's no such thing as "their meaning of life." There is only a meaning of life if there is a creator because only he can mean something when he created life. And I see no reason why science can not help us find out what that is.

Life (sentient life at least) has meaning regardless of whether or not there is a God. The meaning of life as commonly used is essentially just a question of what to do with life to gain the most from it. What that is and what type of gain is of importance are subjective and malleable... thus hard to nail down and likely impossible to predict over long periods of a persons life.

**Aeson** · October 24, 2018, 23:39

For example if in my teens someone had told me that I should be in the Philippines planting trees I would have thought they were daft (unless it was someone I highly respected at least). Even if I had accepted and pursued that course, it probably would have gone much different than it has later in life. For better or worse. Likely worse as I didn’t have some of the skills back then that have been very helpful here.

I have found health(emotional, physical, and spiritual), peace, contentment, love, and even financial success here. My life has a greater meaning for it. If there is a god or not, doesn’t change it.

**Kidlicious** · October 25, 2018, 03:46

Originally posted by Aeson View Post

For example if in my teens someone had told me that I should be in the Philippines planting trees I would have thought they were daft (unless it was someone I highly respected at least). Even if I had accepted and pursued that course, it probably would have gone much different than it has later in life. For better or worse. Likely worse as I didn’t have some of the skills back then that have been very helpful here.

I have found health(emotional, physical, and spiritual), peace, contentment, love, and even financial success here. My life has a greater meaning for it. If there is a god or not, doesn’t change it.

As far as physical health goes, non-sentiment beings also have it. Even just objects have it. You could say that a mountain has physical health in a way. A mountain has meaning too. God meant for their to be mountains. Without a creator though mountains have no meaning. Do you agree?

Do trees have a meaning to their life? They aren't happy, right? Yet I believe that there is a meaning to their life because God meant something when he created them. But again, unless God has created them they have no meaning to their life. Do you agree with that?

Human beings are spiritual beings, unlike trees and mountains, so it's much different, yet you still only have meaning because you were created. The fact is that you are only a spiritual being because you were created. Unless you were a spiritual being you would not even question "what is the meaning of life."

So now I ask, how are you a spiritual being, able to ask "what is the meaning of life," unless you were created to do so? What you are saying so far is that you found some meaning of life for yourself. How can you find something that isn't there. See, the meaning of life was already there. The evidence is that you are a spiritual being, asking, "what is the meaning of life."

**Proteus_MST** · October 25, 2018, 04:13

Originally posted by Kidicious View Post

...
Human beings are spiritual beings, unlike trees and mountains, so it's much different, yet you still only have meaning because you were created. The fact is that you are only a spiritual being because you were created. Unless you were a spiritual being you would not even question "what is the meaning of life."
...

Actually one can easily conclude this from the development of religions:

Early humans saw a lightning strike a tree and suddenly there was fire.
They invented a reason for this ... a lightning wielding god.

They experienced a drought letting all of the plants perish ... and invented another god for this, a weather god.

Later they thought about:
What would these gods want us to do in order to please them and not punish us with dorughts that lead to famines?

Leading to a further and further refined set of religious rules, with sacrifices but also rules for personal behavior.

"What is the meaning of life" just is a logical development/evolution from the question "What do our gods want us to do in order to please them (and keep harm away from us)?"

**Aeson** · October 25, 2018, 06:14

Originally posted by Kidicious View Post

As far as physical health goes, non-sentiment beings also have it. Even just objects have it. You could say that a mountain has physical health in a way. A mountain has meaning too. God meant for their to be mountains. Without a creator though mountains have no meaning. Do you agree?

Do trees have a meaning to their life? They aren't happy, right? Yet I believe that there is a meaning to their life because God meant something when he created them. But again, unless God has created them they have no meaning to their life. Do you agree with that?

Human beings are spiritual beings, unlike trees and mountains, so it's much different, yet you still only have meaning because you were created. The fact is that you are only a spiritual being because you were created. Unless you were a spiritual being you would not even question "what is the meaning of life."

So now I ask, how are you a spiritual being, able to ask "what is the meaning of life," unless you were created to do so? What you are saying so far is that you found some meaning of life for yourself. How can you find something that isn't there. See, the meaning of life was already there. The evidence is that you are a spiritual being, asking, "what is the meaning of life."

Youre conflating existing with being created by a god. There is no evidence that proves existence happened due to a god (at least not one as defined by any religion). All the evidence we do have is that things are as they are due to physical laws.

My life has the same meaning whether there is a god that created the chain of events that lead to me, or whether it’s a non sentient physical process with no god involved.

Non sentient entities can have meaning to sentient entities, again regardless of whether there is a god or not.

God is not required for there to be meaning, only sentience is required. A sentient being is able to create/find their own subjective meaning.

**Kidlicious** · October 25, 2018, 06:45

Originally posted by Aeson View Post

Youre conflating existing with being created by a god. There is no evidence that proves existence happened due to a god (at least not one as defined by any religion). All the evidence we do have is that things are as they are due to physical laws.

My life has the same meaning whether there is a god that created the chain of events that lead to me, or whether it’s a non sentient physical process with no god involved.

Non sentient entities can have meaning to sentient entities, again regardless of whether there is a god or not.

God is not required for there to be meaning, only sentience is required. A sentient being is able to create/find their own subjective meaning.

You aren't talking about true meaning. You're talking about your own belief in the meaning of life, and you have no evidence that it's THE meaning of life. In fact you say that it's the result of the physical laws so how is it yours in the first place. If that's true you only believe that you exist because of physical laws. Furthermore, if all of your beliefs are because of the physical laws they will change from moment to moment. They've done just that, haven't they. But since you don't believe in true spiritual meaning you must believe that there is no tendency for your beliefs to approach the true meaning. Indeed you don't even believe in that.

But I'm talking about THE MEANING OF LIFE. That's why I said that there is no such thing as "their meaning of life." It's only what they believe at a specific time.

But what can we say about human reason?

**ZEE** · October 25, 2018, 06:55

That argument should be put in a textbook.

**Aeson** · October 25, 2018, 07:57

I await Kids proof of an objective and immutable meaning of life

**Kidlicious** · October 25, 2018, 07:59

Originally posted by Proteus_MST View Post

Actually one can easily conclude this from the development of religions:

Early humans saw a lightning strike a tree and suddenly there was fire.
They invented a reason for this ... a lightning wielding god.

They experienced a drought letting all of the plants perish ... and invented another god for this, a weather god.

Later they thought about:
What would these gods want us to do in order to please them and not punish us with dorughts that lead to famines?

Leading to a further and further refined set of religious rules, with sacrifices but also rules for personal behavior.

"What is the meaning of life" just is a logical development/evolution from the question "What do our gods want us to do in order to please them (and keep harm away from us)?"

So you have said that you don't reject the belief in a "spiritual god." Now we can assume from what you have said that you believe that that god didn't mean anything when he created the universe. That's an incredible belief. How is that different from believing that if you don't obey God's rules there will be consequences?

**Kidlicious** · October 25, 2018, 08:03

Originally posted by Aeson View Post

I await Kids proof of an objective and immutable meaning of life

I don't need to prove that. My claim is that there is no such thing as "their meaning of life."

**Aeson** · October 25, 2018, 08:10

If there is a god and they intended a meaning yo life, it’s still only Gods subjective meaning o f life. It’s up to each person to figure out what life means to them.

Much like a game designer can create a game intending a certain type of gameplay, while gamers find their own preferred playstlyes.

**Kidlicious** · October 25, 2018, 08:33

Originally posted by Aeson View Post

If there is a god and they intended a meaning yo life, it’s still only Gods subjective meaning o f life. It’s up to each person to figure out what life means to them.

Much like a game designer can create a game intending a certain type of gameplay, while gamers find their own preferred playstlyes.

There is a big difference between a video game created by an imperfect human being and a human being created by God. But that said, the video game can not create it's own gameplay style. The player does that. You can say that the meaning of life is identifying as a unicorn, but that's different from saying that God meant something when he created the universe and mankind, and you would do well to seek that truth.

**Kidlicious** · October 25, 2018, 08:48

The thing is that there isn't a problem with players creating their own style. There is a problem with people creating their own meaning of life and rejecting God's meaning of life. I don't mean there is a problem with planting trees. I'm saying there is more to life than that.

**spambot** · October 25, 2018, 09:33

Why did this thread get hijacked by talk about some mythical being

**Aeson** · October 25, 2018, 09:52

So you’re saying I can plant trees so long as I help establish a worldwide caliphate by the sword, killing all the infidels along the way? Cause that’s the advertised intent of one version of a god.

Should I marry in a LDS Temple and wear fancy underwear so one day I can be a god and determine the meaning of life for worlds myself?

Dance around a fire chanting while high on natural hallucinagens?

Give tons of money to rid my body of thetans?

If not, which version of god(s) and their purpose for us, and why?

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