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I think that a certain faction of liberals, and the most vocal faction, have become very intolerant.
JM
Jon Miller- I AM.CANADIAN
GENERATION 35: The first time you see this, copy it into your sig on any forum and add 1 to the generation. Social experiment.
I have roughly the same position on abortion myself. Many on the right would call you or I a murderer for that position. Everyone has a right to voice their opinion.
The difference is those on the left would not force an abortion on your wife, and a large majority actually support reasonable restrictions on late term abortions, while those on the right want to force their view on your wife.
We enforce or attempt to enforce our 'opinions' on murder all the time. There is nothing inconsistent with that.
And those on the right would not call us murderers unless we actually got abortions (OK, I have purchased a morning after pill and some would call me a murderer for that).
JM
(I do think that many abortions are murder, I just don't think that saying 'murderer murderer' is the way to help things. Restrictions on abortion providers (but not banning), good sex ed (including condoms/etc), increased wealth and support for young mothers, and information campaigns do a better job.)
(Republicans have probably been pushing the restriction angle too much, most people who are not heavily on either side are not going to get upset if someone has to drive a couple hours to get an abortion. Much further though and people will start to think it is a stealth ban instead of a reasonable restriction.)
Jon Miller- I AM.CANADIAN
GENERATION 35: The first time you see this, copy it into your sig on any forum and add 1 to the generation. Social experiment.
I think that a certain faction of liberals, and the most vocal faction, have become very intolerant.
JM
I think there is a lot of anger on the left that you don't think of as anger. Again, look at all the protests. Look at their faces. Do you see anything on the right like that except from a small group of radicals like the KKK? Do you ever look at liberal websites and look at the comments or try to argue with them?
I drank beer. I like beer. I still like beer. ... Do you like beer Senator?
- Justice Brett Kavanaugh
We enforce or attempt to enforce our 'opinions' on murder all the time. There is nothing inconsistent with that.
And those on the right would not call us murderers unless we actually got abortions (OK, I have purchased a morning after pill and some would call me a murderer for that).
JM
(I do think that many abortions are murder, I just don't think that saying 'murderer murderer' is the way to help things. Restrictions on abortion providers (but not banning), good sex ed (including condoms/etc), increased wealth and support for young mothers, and information campaigns do a better job.)
(Republicans have probably been pushing the restriction angle too much, most people who are not heavily on either side are not going to get upset if someone has to drive a couple hours to get an abortion. Much further though and people will start to think it is a stealth ban instead of a reasonable restriction.)
So you don't agree with saving babies by restricting abortions?
I drank beer. I like beer. I still like beer. ... Do you like beer Senator?
- Justice Brett Kavanaugh
I just note that if you use that angle too heavily that it will become a battleground and it loses it's effectiveness.
Requiring hurdles is good, it requires people to think. If there is a big fight and you lose, you lose your hurdles, so it is best if the hurdles are small enough so that there is no big fight.
And even really high hurdles (abortion banned) are still only really high, people will get abortions in any case. So the most important thing must always be changing hearts and minds and environments and situations so that abortions are not desired (so information, support for young women including generous financial support for possible mothers to be, easy access to IUTs/condoms/morning after pills/etc).
JM
Jon Miller- I AM.CANADIAN
GENERATION 35: The first time you see this, copy it into your sig on any forum and add 1 to the generation. Social experiment.
Jon Miller- I AM.CANADIAN
GENERATION 35: The first time you see this, copy it into your sig on any forum and add 1 to the generation. Social experiment.
We enforce or attempt to enforce our 'opinions' on murder all the time. There is nothing inconsistent with that.
There would be a difference between the two sides of whether or not to allow people to kill other people. It is the contrast between the two sides which show the difference.
In the case of murder, pretty much everyone agrees it (the killing) should be illegal (and thus murder). It is obvious to almost everyone that we are better off not allowing indiscriminate killing. No one can really make a rational argument about how allowing indiscriminate killing is actually what we should do.
In the case of abortion, it's not so obvious at what point to disallow it, with rational arguments to be made on both sides (and plenty of irrational ones as well of course). Some would say conception, some would say birth, and there are lots of milestones between that can have rational arguments made for them. Even for those of us who agree that sentience should be the cut off point ... because we can't really nail down at what point that happens. Some might say brain waves, some might say earlier (since our detection isn't perfect) or later (since the brain hasn't reached a certain level of complexity) ... but no one really knows for sure.
So the differences between the two situations are quite immense. For society, who almost all agree on X and no one rational can make an argument against it, to implement X ... is very different that < 1/2 of the population to enforce a position which can rationally be argued against, on the rest of society against their will.
Also it's very different because it involves forcing a woman to go through pregnancy. This isn't just about telling someone not to do something (don't kill other people) ... it's about telling them that they have to do something extremely personal, potentially fatal, and life changing.
And those on the right would not call us murderers unless we actually got abortions (OK, I have purchased a morning after pill and some would call me a murderer for that).
It's already happened. You might not have heard it, but there are people who call you and the rest of us murderers for not opposing all abortions.
But words are just words. Both sides can be harsh (as is their right to be).
You would be in prison (assuming you gave the morning after pill to someone who used it) if some people had their way.
The pro-life movement, even the *******s, are trying to become the majority. The focus is not enforcing a minority held position.
Of course, protecting minorities is an important part of law in any society. It would have been right for the pre1860s supreme court to protect the lives of blacks even though it was the minority position. Of course, it was (And is) most important that the view that black lives should be protected become the majority view and not a minority view.
I do wish that a vocal minority in the pro-life movement would realize that.
JM
Jon Miller- I AM.CANADIAN
GENERATION 35: The first time you see this, copy it into your sig on any forum and add 1 to the generation. Social experiment.
I think there is a lot of anger on the left that you don't think of as anger. Again, look at all the protests. Look at their faces. Do you see anything on the right like that except from a small group of radicals like the KKK? Do you ever look at liberal websites and look at the comments or try to argue with them?
Gosh no Kid, we'd never see anger like that on the right..
If Hillary had won, the hardcore conservatives would be forming militias, stockpiling ammo, and doing other demented but arguably sorta constructive things. Their general mentality would be "**** THAT WORTHLESS WHORE WE'LL SHOW HER." These folks are, well, hugging their teddies in the safe space. Why?
If you don't believe in achieving your ends through violence then you're not left with many options other than to protest (which I don't believe is productive unless the right takes it seriously enough to respond with violence) or hug your teddies in a safe space.
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