The Moral Arc

[loinburger]

Seriously? This man is really ****ing good at generating discord. He's as good at trolling as he is bad at actual statesmanship. And all you need for a riot is for a sufficiently large and angry protest to get out of hand. IIRC there was limited rioting in the week immediately following the election (in Portland, of all places).

I agree that he's an excellent troll, but I just don't think that any of the policies he's able to enact will be riot-worthy. This is however taking the view that he's too much of a pragmatist to try to e.g. deport several million illegal aliens or pardon a local cop who murdered a black kid or whatever have you. I predict that he'll try to troll people into rioting over local police abuses of power, but ultimately it's the local police who deserve the blame.

[loinburger]

Realistically, I think that Worst Case Trump will:
**** up our foreign policy
**** up our economy
**** up our energy policy
Appoint some *******s to the Supreme Court
Act like an ******* on Twitter
Build his big boondoggle wall
Rake in a bunch of "ethically questionable" money

Obviously none of those is a good thing, but only "act like an ******* on Twitter" will contribute to any rioting and there the riots will still primarily be the fault of local/state police/politicians

[Elok]

They might be the fault of police and politicians, but as a general rule people don't see it that way. If there are people smashing windows, looting stores and setting things on fire, and police officers trying to shoot and prosecute the people who are smashing, looting and burning, typically at least some segment of the population will be predisposed to favor the policemen at least a little, because they represent order. In Trump's case I think that faction will be less dominant than is typical, because he's so shameless about provocation. But rioters are never very sympathetic figures.

[loinburger]

I wasn't clear, I meant that nobody will blame Trump for the riots - I didn't mean that nobody will blame the rioters. (TBH I think that at most 5% of rioters are rioting on principle while the other 95%+ just want to smash windows, which is why I think that violent protest is even less effective than non-violent protest - with non-violent protest there's at least a chance that people will side with you over Bull Connor)

[C0ckney]

The thing is, Trump has previously shown a masterful talent at provocation; I think it's more likely that he'll deliberately provoke disturbance, crush the resultant riot (nobody likes rioters), and play law and order. Will it get everybody on his side? No. But I don't think he expects that. If a smallish minority is vehemently angry and keeps getting provoked into violence, disturbance, and general obnoxiousness, he'll have enough plausible deniability to hold onto power and grab for more while the bulk of America (not his ardent followers, not his most rabid foes, just the confused and worried mass in the middle) sits hemming and hawing. He can't be not despised, but as long as the other side can be made to act despicably we'll have the choice between two devils and stick to the devil we know.

I don't know what the answer to that is.

but why would he even need to do that? he's already won; he's getting sworn in today. he needn't do anything at all.

there is a significant number of people who oppose trump. there is a smaller number who are prepared to use violence to express their opposition, including some who are just looking for any excuse to smash things up, but they represent almost no one but themselves. so what trump is likely to do is smile, wave, call for unity, moving on, rebuilding the country, blah blah blah, and let the news report acts of violence by a small minority of his opponents, which most people will find disgusting.

[Lorizael]

but why would he even need to do that? he's already won; he's getting sworn in today. he needn't do anything at all.

If you think Trump is capable of stopping himself from provoking people, you haven't been paying attention to him the last couple decades.

[C0ckney]

the fact that he won is more than enough provocation for quite a few people.

[Bereta_Eder]

It was many people's who fought and died to stop fascism. To try to make it about only one or two groups and pretend the others were secretly Nazis is absurd. It is in fact falling into the same hyper exclusuvity trap.

There were even lots of Germans even who risked their lives and many who gave theirs to give aid or shelter ... or even directly fight back against the Nazis.

The Nazis viewed themselves as superior ... denying the value of the rest of humanity. And what are you doing if not the same thing? You hold Greeks and Russians as heroes (rightly so), but then deride those who made the same heroic sacrifices as deficient or even secretly Nazis themselves.

I was ready to tell you that I regard you as a kind hearted but redarded intivindual incapable of getting irony, and that's why I was banned for "using a homophobic slur" like "******". Luckily AHHZZ has taken back my blood lots of times so it's ok.

You failed again to understand irony.


If I'm in the mood I'll explain it to you.

You remain good hearted but slightly slow on the uptake (but it's natural when dealing with me)

[Kidlicious]

the fact that he won is more than enough provocation for quite a few people.

Not all of us are cool with safe spaces and political correctness.

[loinburger]

For somebody who complains about safe spaces you certainly act like you're in need of one. "Boo ****ing hoo, I got called racist for being racist, where's my safe space where I can be racist without being called racist???"

[kentonio]

Not all of us are cool with safe spaces and political correctness.

Ironic considering how much whining you did about you and your MRA friends not being allowed to have a conference in peace.

[Kidlicious]

For somebody who complains about safe spaces you certainly act like you're in need of one. "Boo ****ing hoo, I got called racist for being racist, where's my safe space where I can be racist without being called racist???"

Rich coming from the person who tries to get people banned from this website who say things that make him upset like, "pee standing up."

[Kidlicious]

Ironic considering how much whining you did about you and your MRA friends not being allowed to have a conference in peace.

[loinburger]

I have never tried to get you banned, you've managed that all by yourself. Take this thread for example, you openly advocate for violence against your political/cultural enemies without requiring any prompting by anybody else.

[loinburger]

"If a feminist crashes one of my MRA meetings then she's basically wearing a 'rape me' sign on her back. I can't be blamed for my actions. "