results thread [us elections]

[Kidlicious]

Most actual psychologists don't agree with you.

Not true. You can't make someone a new gender.

[Proteus_MST]

Not true. You can't make someone a new gender.

You can do surgery so that s/he looks like someone of the other gender and also has similar feelings when having sex (the tip of the penis, for example becomes a clitoris in an mtf surgery)
Also the hormonal therapy results in certain changes when it comes to the emotional states

They may not be able to father cildren/get pregnant (or get periods) and they still have XY chromosomes instead of XX (or vice versa), but aside from this they are as close to being someone of the other other gender, as they can get(with nowadays technologies)

[Kidlicious]

Most actual psychologists don't agree with you.

"A mental illness is a condition that affects a person's thinking, feeling or mood. Such conditions may affect someone's ability to relate to others and function each day. Each person will have different experiences, even people with the same diagnosis."

NAMI

[ZEE]

I just wanted to say that as a certified, official, 5150'd, and DOCUMENTED psychopath, I am totally different than any other people I have met with my exact same condition. Plus I made it to 40 without help and with a long-standing job.

I'm AAHZ goddammit.

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[ZEE]

but you can call me Mapus if you want.

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[Kidlicious]

Some people have accused me of bigotry, but some of best friends are 5150. How many mods can say that?

[Proteus_MST]

Some people have accused me of bigotry, but some of best friends are 5150. How many mods can say that?

5150?
You have some of the first IBM-PCs as your friends?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_Personal_Computer

[Kidlicious]

I also have my own problems

https://www.healthline.com/health-news/toxic-masculinity-mental-health-problems-for-men

So I don't judge.

[Jon Miller]

You can do surgery so that s/he looks like someone of the other gender and also has similar feelings when having sex (the tip of the penis, for example becomes a clitoris in an mtf surgery)
Also the hormonal therapy results in certain changes when it comes to the emotional states

They may not be able to father cildren/get pregnant (or get periods) and they still have XY chromosomes instead of XX (or vice versa), but aside from this they are as close to being someone of the other other gender, as they can get(with nowadays technologies)

Yes, but they haven't actually changed physical sex.

This does seem like an area where the psychologists have allowed their politics/etc to influence their professional statements, which is pretty bad.

In reality both psychologists and transgenders acknowledge that the transitioned have not physically changed gender. The position that it is not a mental illness and that surgery is the only effective 'cure' is political. That is a fine political position to hold, but the obvious role of political bias in the scientific statements of this professional group has weakened the publics confidence in science in general (particularly science where politics is important) and so is pretty terrible.

JM

[Dinner]

Most actual psychologists don't agree with you.

Their sky high suicide rate both before and after "transitioning" as well as the very high number who try to "transition" back speaks very highly towards the fact that they are nuttier than squirrel poo.

I get that everyone wants to be nice but simply ignoring these facts is not the proper way to handle it. I am sure you will try to blame everyone else for mentally ill people killing themselves due to nonacceptance or what not... But if we had an island with only trans people on it I would bet my bottom dollar that the suicide rates would still be sky high because the dwfective element in this equation are these people and not everyone else. :shrug:

[Kidlicious]

But self-relent men are truly mentally ill

[Jon Miller]

I am not a psychologist. If they want to say that the best treatment is surgery that is fine. That is also something that can be evaluated scientifically... and that, as a non-psychologist, I can't really evaluate.

But saying that 'it is not a mental illness' when it is by definition... implies that they have a very strong bias problem... and provides motivation for people to question their evaluations/etc.

JM

[ZEE]

5150?
You have some of the first IBM-PCs as your friends?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_Personal_Computer

I am surprised Oerdin has nevar heard of Section 5150, since he lives in California. Down here they call it Baker Act; or you have been Baker Act'd.

I use the term 5150 because it has a certain swagger and bravado. Telling people I have been Baker Act'd is a humiliation, as opposed to saying 'AAHZ has a 5150 under his belt,' which commands respect.

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[Elok]

I am not a psychologist. If they want to say that the best treatment is surgery that is fine. That is also something that can be evaluated scientifically... and that, as a non-psychologist, I can't really evaluate.

But saying that 'it is not a mental illness' when it is by definition... implies that they have a very strong bias problem... and provides motivation for people to question their evaluations/etc.

JM

I don't know a lot about this, but there is some general dodginess about the whole subject. Starting with the way the term "transgender" can refer to any number of different things. It can mean a person who identifies as the opposite sex strongly from very early, or one who only starts at puberty, or one who only decided well into adulthood or even middle age. In either of the latter two cases, it's assumed that the feeling was ... being repressed? Or something. We have the beginnings of some idea about what causes this, but nothing firm. It's not even really clear that it's a single phenomenon; given the different manifestations, I'd be very surprised if it were. Some percentage of them have something weird going on genetically or developmentally, or have atypical brainscans--but do we need to get into how tenuous the science of brainscans is right now?

Unscientific prediction: some people are genetically atypical. Others have some kind of peculiar psychological disorder akin to schizophrenia. Still others are merely highly excitable and suggestible, and identify as transgender because UFOs are rather passe these days. There will be significant overlap between the groups. But we won't work out what's what until the current frenzy sorts out and it becomes politically acceptable to ask skeptical questions.

[Proteus_MST]

For me the important question is: Will it help them or not?
I it helps them to get happy (and maybe have successful sexual relationships in the gender tthey belong to), then, why not?

Dunno how it is in the USA, but in germany there are certain conditions that have to be fulfilled before a sexual reassignment surgery is allowed
(in order to filter those candidates who actaully wnt it from those who may be helped in diifferent ways)

The person has to live a certain time (IIRC 1 year) as the gender they think they belong to ... this means that during this year they always have to dress as the gender of their choice, have to learn steps to pass for the diffeent gender (for example speech training, so their voice sounds like a memberof the other gender) and have to visit the psychologist regularly in order to talk about their experiences (and I guess, will also have/keep contact to other transgenders).
AFAIK only after this year the steps to transition begin (i.e. hormone treatment and finally the gender reassignment surgery) (with the person being allowed to change the gender in passport and birth certificate, after s/he is made infertile (i.e. removal of ovries/testicles).

If, for example, in the USA it is different and people can undergo hormone treatment and gender reassignment surgery after a considerably shorter time, then maybe this is the problem (and may result in more disappointments after transition)