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  • #61
    Originally posted by Dinner View Post
    Much of Europe has privately run health care providers. Yes, you can indeed have national insurance but private care providers. Look it up. I suggest looking at France and The Netherlands if you thonk it is impossible.
    Sure. You just forget one thing - the private business is an addition - not the primary.

    Consider the case - Appendicitis - in europe you are cured without any expenses - in US you may have to sell your house. Oh, you don't have a house ? too bad.

    Severe cancer cases - pretty much the same.

    So if you get sick it's way better to be european than american.
    With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion.

    Steven Weinberg

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    • #62
      Blackcat, I am talking about having universal national health insurance but privately owned health care providers which patients can pick between. Very much what France currently has.
      Try http://wordforge.net/index.php for discussion and debate.

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      • #63
        Originally posted by Dinner View Post
        Blackcat, I am talking about having universal national health insurance but privately owned health care providers which patients can pick between. Very much what France currently has.
        Very few people ever exercise that option because it is a waste of money. You talk about privatising hospitals, which is just disastrously dumb as an idea.

        The care provided by public providers is often superior in Europe.
        For there is [another] kind of violence, slower but just as deadly, destructive as the shot or the bomb in the night. This is the violence of institutions -- indifference, inaction, and decay. This is the violence that afflicts the poor, that poisons relations between men because their skin has different colors. - Bobby Kennedy (Mindless Menance of Violence)

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        • #64
          Originally posted by Dinner View Post
          Blackcat, I am talking about having universal national health insurance but privately owned health care providers which patients can pick between. Very much what France currently has.
          Yeah, France has about 20% private beds in their health care system - only 65 % are public.

          Health care in France - Wikipedia
          https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_care_in_France
          With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion.

          Steven Weinberg

          Comment

          • #65
            Originally posted by Giancarlo View Post
            Very few people ever exercise that option because it is a waste of money.
            Generally that is true, though, due to the unavoidable queues in the public system you can be treated faster if you have the money to hire a "specialist" of unknown experience
            With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion.

            Steven Weinberg

            Comment

            • #66
              The strange thing is that some says that the Favelas can be improved by introducing free trade etc, but what about say Detroit ?

              That city is by any means a ****hole that make most favelas something like heaven. Why haven't free trade saved that city from it's catastrophical deroute ?
              With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion.

              Steven Weinberg

              Comment

              • #67
                Originally posted by BlackCat View Post
                The strange thing is that some says that the Favelas can be improved by introducing free trade etc, but what about say Detroit ?

                That city is by any means a ****hole that make most favelas something like heaven. Why haven't free trade saved that city from it's catastrophical deroute ?
                Nailed it. "Free trade" basically killed American car companies. When Ford produces crap like the Fiesta along with many other examples, what do you expect?
                For there is [another] kind of violence, slower but just as deadly, destructive as the shot or the bomb in the night. This is the violence of institutions -- indifference, inaction, and decay. This is the violence that afflicts the poor, that poisons relations between men because their skin has different colors. - Bobby Kennedy (Mindless Menance of Violence)

                Comment

                • #68
                  Maybe one of threads should discuss the non Olympics discussion and the other should actually discuss the Olympics

                  And since this one actually has Olympics in the title

                  Current medal count.

                  Country

                  United States 10 9 9 28

                  2 China 9 4 8 21

                  3 Japan 6 1 10 17

                  4 Russia 4 7 3 14

                  5 South Korea 4 2 3 9
                  Keep on Civin'
                  RIP rah, Tony Bogey & Baron O

                  Comment

                  • #69
                    Originally posted by BlackCat View Post
                    Sure. You just forget one thing - the private business is an addition - not the primary.

                    Consider the case - Appendicitis - in europe you are cured without any expenses - in US you may have to sell your house. Oh, you don't have a house ? too bad.

                    Severe cancer cases - pretty much the same.

                    So if you get sick it's way better to be european than american.
                    The majority of people in the US would not have to sell their house or even come close. What we lack in the US is Universal Coverage. What you read about are the cases of the unfortunate minority. Thanks to the ACA (Obamacare), 20 million Americans who were previously uninsured are now insured. The estimate is that this still leave another 15 million people uninsured. If the ACA gets full participation by the states, this number could be cut in half again without further adjustments to the law. If Clinton is elected and Democrats gain a majority in the Senate, we have the potential to make adjustments to the law to achieve Universal Coverage.

                    In any case, it doesn't matter what system you have, rich people will pay for and receive additional/superior care.
                    Last edited by pchang; August 10, 2016, 21:25.
                    “It is no use trying to 'see through' first principles. If you see through everything, then everything is transparent. But a wholly transparent world is an invisible world. To 'see through' all things is the same as not to see.”

                    ― C.S. Lewis, The Abolition of Man​

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                    • #70
                      Fine by me -- send the economics on over!
                      No, I did not steal that from somebody on Something Awful.

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                      • #71
                        Originally posted by Giancarlo View Post
                        Nailed it. "Free trade" basically killed American car companies. When Ford produces crap like the Fiesta along with many other examples, what do you expect?
                        Making bad cars killed American car companies.

                        Comment

                        • #72
                          Nothing like playing Denmark to cure what ails you.
                          “It is no use trying to 'see through' first principles. If you see through everything, then everything is transparent. But a wholly transparent world is an invisible world. To 'see through' all things is the same as not to see.”

                          ― C.S. Lewis, The Abolition of Man​

                          Comment

                          • #73
                            Originally posted by giblets View Post
                            Making bad cars killed American car companies.
                            It was a combination of the two. Notice I did mention the Fiesta lol.
                            For there is [another] kind of violence, slower but just as deadly, destructive as the shot or the bomb in the night. This is the violence of institutions -- indifference, inaction, and decay. This is the violence that afflicts the poor, that poisons relations between men because their skin has different colors. - Bobby Kennedy (Mindless Menance of Violence)

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                            • #74
                              The US also has 2 Silvers in Fencing ... so if you take away our guns we can still stab you

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                              • #75
                                Originally posted by Aeson View Post
                                The US also has 2 Silvers in Fencing ... so if you take away our guns we can still stab you
                                With a butter knife made in China.
                                For there is [another] kind of violence, slower but just as deadly, destructive as the shot or the bomb in the night. This is the violence of institutions -- indifference, inaction, and decay. This is the violence that afflicts the poor, that poisons relations between men because their skin has different colors. - Bobby Kennedy (Mindless Menance of Violence)

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