UK Trident vote today

[Giancarlo]

Dauphin... Another idiot. Instead of editing what I wrote, post a link proving it.

Cockney, learn how to debate. When someone asks you to back yourself do it. Claiming "check their member ship figures" doesn't mean anything.

You can't back yourself up. Bald assertions! Stupid ****ing child you are.

[Giancarlo]

I'm laughing so hard this stupid child thinks he can debunk what I said merely by his own words. I have had about enough and the gloves are off. You can't point out what is wrong with someone's post, when you have no evidence or proof. Your words aren't enough.

[Dauphin]

Dauphin... Another idiot. Instead of editing what I wrote, post a link proving it.

Have you blocked out the meme from way back when? Was it that traumatic for you?

[Giancarlo]

Have you blocked out the meme from way back when? Was it that traumatic for you?

Now that isn't what I asked. So you have failed. Thanks for playing.

[Dauphin]

Your dad is Italian, correct?

[Bereta_Eder]

Well if his dad is italian, he is from spain and has lived in the US and argentina, then he's really a child of the world right?

About the results of the latest spanish elections they can be read either way, based on one's platform.

My personal reading is that the spanish political system was and is paralyzed. This coupled with even more "Admonishements" from the commission about portugal and spain let alone italian banks and renzi's most recent vile capitulation (which it won't pass) waive a nice sweater for things to come

[Bereta_Eder]

Oh yeah and the brexit of course.

[C0ckney]

I never made a comparison between the votes for IU and Podemos. Care to point out where I did?

you made a comparison between the parties themselves, which i said was wrong and used the votes as an example of how you were wrong. do try to keep up.

Your **** copy and paste job is almost as bad as your atrocious grammar.

So what are we supposed to do here? Take your word for... Everything? And how you know everything (or so you like to claim!)?

If I am not very good at this, you are downright embarrassing. Not one source, while I took my time and posted several. You just make bald headed claims like "they are still rising" and you never back yourself up.

You suck horribly at debating and your ego is so big it prevents you from admitting you are wrong. You just don't like it I caught you red handed spouting bull**** about a country you know absolutely nothing about.

i see you are still very angry about being caught out lying. try less lying and less BAM. you'll be both less stressed and a better poster.

[C0ckney]

but to continue this debate, which could be quite interesting with someone worth talking to.

Well if his dad is italian, he is from spain and has lived in the US and argentina, then he's really a child of the world right?

About the results of the latest spanish elections they can be read either way, based on one's platform.

My personal reading is that the spanish political system was and is paralyzed. This coupled with even more "Admonishements" from the commission about portugal and spain let alone italian banks and renzi's most recent vile capitulation (which it won't pass) waive a nice sweater for things to come

yes, it can be read in different ways. however, the fact that podemos is much larger than the PSOE, and is gaining in members, whereas the PSOE is losing them, and the fact that candidates it backs run several major cities, including madrid and barcelona, suggest that they are likely to do better in the future. the underlying situation, i.e. the lost decade or more - we'll see - and the continuing high unemployment is likely to aid non-mainstream parties. the fact that the mainstream parties appear to have no real solutions to these problems will help the non-mainstream ones still further.

also, spain fits in with the european pattern that i have spoken about at length in other threads, in which centre-left parties are facing challenges from both their left and their right. in spain the PSOE's challenge comes from the left because the PP mops up most right-wing groups and the far-right obviously has a rather limited appeal due to memories of the dictatorship. there is very little reason to think that the PSOE can recover its former strength. its membership is falling, and its efforts to reinvent itself, put in a photogenic leader, etc. have done little to arrest its decline; moreover, it has few if any ideas.

these things take time of course. syriza took several years to build itself up. and much will depend on the wider european situation.

[Bereta_Eder]

some notes because I have to start collecting receipts to get paid for the latest trip and I haven't done it and I'm starting to feel like jesus (very virtious/stupid, he didn't care about money either)

depends on how local administration is set up in each country to assess the effect this will have on the national level decision making process, Madrid's mayor is an amazing lady but it's how the structure of spain works that will determine how much effect she will have on things that matter.

memories of the dictatorship don't matter. people are stupid (untill they are not) it' s everyday reality that will sway them one way or the other. have a right wing party in power, blaming immigrants and santa for the crap the people go through, they'll buy it (untill they don't) and the country will turn into a quasi dictatorship again

there is no way to create from scratch an anti-photogenic leader. these people are born then molded through battle. they can't be ordered or invented however practical they might be proven to the "enemy".


yep it's always about the wider european situation that's s amazingly interconnected, and about reality

[C0ckney]

well, of course the relationship between local and central government is important. spain is quite decentralised. local politics gives new parties a chance at power, to test out radical policies and see what works and what doesn't; it also allows them to gain experience, and to build up a base that can be used to help the party at other levels.

what i mean is that most people with fond memories of franco support PP, and that leaves little space for parties further to the right.

likewise, i'm saying that the PSOE has a photogenic leader at present but that he hasn't helped it much.

[Bereta_Eder]

well of course each country is different but about the level of decentralization: it really boils down to how much control local administrations have over finances. can they withold money, can they do with it as they please, can they help the central gov or hinder it? (according to whom is in power) that's what I mean.
sure I guess experience in a local level is very VERY important as is loyalty of the local electorate. those will catapult the future MPs into parliement.

about the PP, spain's dictatorship lasted for a mindbogling long time. I admit I don't know if the PP has clusters of very far right MPs. If, for example those broke away and formed their own inconsiquencial party, it would be very (disgusting) and useful.

yep, the former traditional center left parties are "unsavable" I think even if they had monica belucci in the helm (or equivalent)
however, the real danger is not them IMHO but wether the left party in power would somehow "cross the rubicon" and do something completely outside of its frame of reference, like renzi has done that is now trying to abolish basic worker's rights for public servants for example. rendering them very manageable and triggering social automatism

[Bereta_Eder]

nationalism *in small doses* and tapping on the historical collective memory/experience is useful in the narrative to attract disgruntled right wingers (because there are lots).
However the most powerful item, IMHO is the constitution itself. You thrust it in front of corprorations, EU, whatever other ****er, and even they have to be very careful about how they shred it. In plain site.

[Giancarlo]

Your dad is Italian, correct?

And?

Remember a football player by the name of Mario Gomez. One parent was Spanish, the other was German. So what? WHat does that matter?

[Giancarlo]

you made a comparison between the parties themselves, which i said was wrong and used the votes as an example of how you were wrong. do try to keep up.



i see you are still very angry about being caught out lying. try less lying and less BAM. you'll be both less stressed and a better poster.

YOu're a horrible poster and I've asked numerous times for you to prove where I said anything about the votes being related between IU and Podemos. You cannot prove I did so you are now lying. If lying was a banable offense, you would have been out of here pages ago. You have not once backed up anything you have said. Not once. I've provided several articles in this site, and your argument is based purely on your word.

Surely... you're not asking me to take the word of some British dude who has some stupid preconceived, wikipedia-like ideas about Spain?