Which Religion's Slavers Were Better?

[Dauphin]

I'm not seeing it in this thread. this is important. did Ben actually have some kind of smoking gun posts that left hatred on Ben's part as the only reasonable explanation for their contents?

Not sure why this is coming up now, but do you mean things like this:

What is it with Catholic Priests? - Apolyton Civilization Site​

Thread started on Catholic church scandal, and Ben made it about Obama

Compared to what the Obama administration wastes? It's an unfortunate reality but funds will always be misused. At least there is more accountability with the parishes than with Obama.

Later a comment on the incarcerated black population and telling Albie he is a disappointment to his race....Albie pointed out he is actually white.....

Some of that 13% were people living in the 10 states where a felony conviction ever in your life prohibits you from voting for the REST of your life.

Perhaps they should have thought about this before they broke the law.

Only you would say that someone who committed a felony 30 years ago when he was 18 should be barred from voting for the rest of his life.

You want to know what I think, Albert? I think you are a disappointment to your race. I'd be embarassed if I saw someone making excuses for white folks.

Do the crime, suffer the loss of your civil liberties. There's no excuse for it, Albert. Everyone has a choice. If you grew up in a bad neighbourhood, and you choose to commit a crime, you should expect to be punished for it.

Whining about how it is unfair, I don't have much sympathy. What makes you so special that you believe the rules do not apply to you?​

Okay. 1, I'm white.

It gets worse from there...

[Geronimo]

Ok. I guess the conversation I'm pursuing here isn't intrinsically about BK anyway. If you're telling me you aren't ascribing hate to BK because of his bias but because of some more clear cut evidence of actual hatred then I won't try to contest that.

I'm deeply concerned that bias against any protected class is routinely described as hatred. Not only do I judge that to be an inaccurate generalization but I suspect that the attempts to label such bias as "hate", essentially gas lighting the target, perversely make the bias even more difficult to defuse and root out. Would you agree that most instances of "hate" that get called out are actually just bias stemming from ignorance and tribalism? Most of these supposed "haters" might actually stick their necks out to help individuals of the protected class if the opportunity arise, they just refuse to treat them as individuals when they can instead spout off lazy generalizations that help them feel better about themselves and the various groups they feel a connection to.

The talk of last week about the need to to e down the rhetoric has really highlighted the importance of this conversation.

[Lorizael]

Is there some particular reason we need to tone down the rhetoric? Did it precipitate some specific bad event? ...and do you have proof of that causal connection, or just a feeling that they're linked?

In the US, one side wants to make it harder for minorities to vote, roll back civil rights, criminalize sexual identities, and enshrine the executive as a king above the law... and has taken many actions in furtherance of those goals. I absolutely think we should try to understand why people do or support those things for purposes of (a) strategizing and (b) proselytizing, but at the end of the day their specific motivations are completely irrelevant to the real and significant harm they cause, and if that's not something to get angry about, what is?

[Geronimo]

Is there some particular reason we need to tone down the rhetoric? Did it precipitate some specific bad event? ...and do you have proof of that causal connection, or just a feeling that they're linked?

We need to tone down the rhetoric because it is ending meaningful political discourse. Because it is generating political violence. Because the hyperbole is simply inaccurate and leaving the people who accept it far more vulnerable to cynical manipulation by elite interests.

In the US, one side wants to make it harder for minorities to vote, roll back civil rights, criminalize sexual identities, and enshrine the executive as a king above the law... and has taken many actions in furtherance of those goals. I absolutely think we should try to understand why people do or support those things for purposes of (a) strategizing and (b) proselytizing, but at the end of the day their specific motivations are completely irrelevant to the real and significant harm they cause, and if that's not something to get angry about, what is?

​​​​​​None of this, even if accepted as true, makes characterization of all bias against any protected class as "hate" any more defensible on any level. It makes sense to be passionate about politics. It does not make sense to label all bias against protected classes as "hate". I maintain both that it isn't usually evidence of "hate" in any meaningful sense and even more importantly that doing so only makes combatting the bias vastly more difficult.

For the record I also would maintain that all of your points above are in fact are not only subject to debate but would be obviously absurd as generalizations of the views of "one side".

[Lorizael]

​​​​​​None of this, even if accepted as true, makes characterization of all bias against any protected class as "hate" any more defensible on any level. It makes sense to be passionate about politics. It does not make sense to label all bias against protected classes as "hate". I maintain both that it isn't usually evidence of "hate" in any meaningful sense and even more importantly that doing so only makes combatting the bias vastly more difficult.

I don't know who you're having this argument with but it's not me

For the record I also would maintain that all of your points above are in fact are not only subject to debate but would be obviously absurd as generalizations of the views of "one side".

For certain folks on the right, they are very clearly and very loudly in favor of the positions I articulated. See: Heritage Foundation, Federalist Society, Project 2025, any Trump rally, etc.

[Geronimo]

I do want to say that when anyone uses the phrase " betrays their race" or any equivalent phrasing that they have revealed themselves to have a pathetically toxic and dehumanizing of denial our individuality that I find particularly offensive. If Ben ever returned and didn't apologize for such a a mindset he might be one of the few people I'd resort to placing on ignore, especially if he doubled down. My apologies if I even seemed the be defending any of that tripe

[N35t0r]

I'm 100% in support of Lori. Both in stating that BK is a toxic human being and that bothsidering political discourse in the US today is morally bankrupt.

[Lorizael]

For the record I also would maintain that all of your points above are in fact are not only subject to debate but would be obviously absurd as generalizations of the views of "one side".

For certain folks on the right, they are very clearly and very loudly in favor of the positions I articulated. See: Heritage Foundation, Federalist Society, Project 2025, any Trump rally, etc.

Case in point: these people--the Republican presidential nominee's base at the Republican National Convention--are not subtle about wanting to get rid of minorities, illegals, undesirables, etc.

[Geronimo]

Case in point: these people--the Republican presidential nominee's base at the Republican National Convention--are not subtle about wanting to get rid of minorities, illegals, undesirables, etc.

The sign says mass deportation. What's a good way to know what they really mean?

[N35t0r]

The sign says mass deportation. What's a good way to know what they really mean?

Believing people when they tell you who they are.

[Lorizael]

I suspect it means they want mass deportations now.

[Geronimo]

I suspect it means they want mass deportations now.

yes. which only would have meaning for "illegals". You said they also meant

are not subtle about wanting to get rid of minorities, illegals, undesirables, etc.
​

So are you saying the signs show that the sign holders advocate getting rid of non-"illegal" minorities, undesirables, etc. via mass deportation as well?

[Geronimo]

Believing people when they tell you who they are.

Not also believing what you generalize about who they are based on your expectations of other beliefs and values you associate with what they tell you who they are?

[Lorizael]

You cannot be in favor off mass deportation now and want a slow, methodical system that figures out who is and isn't allowed to be here by law. Mass deportation now means you want all the bad people (you know, the bad ones) gotten rid of, which we know because historically that's what mass deportation has always meant.

[Geronimo]

never attribute to malice that which is more easily explained by stupidity.