Pope: Catholics should ask gay people for forgiveness

[rah]

I dislike watching it and find it lacking in value, why would I watch it with my daughter or include it in her development?

JM

Because your daughter will feel a tad isolated if she is totally unaware of some of the things most of her peers are interested in.
They may consider her a freak. Growing up is hard enough, and there's no reason to make it harder.

[Jon Miller]

When I was in my teens I was sympathetic to such an argument. I am less so now, especially now that I have gone without all TV (even netflix) for some time.

JM
(I also tend to think that it is school that mostly condemns kids and makes them miserable for being a 'freak', once she gets to college people are more mature and accepting. If she doesn't attend US school, her not watching US TV will not be a problem.)

[Kidlicious]

But it doesn't speak for your kids education (at home) if it is so weak, that you have to keep your kid away from contact with other cultural influences, for fear that it "switches" over to them.
Maybe, instead of keeping it away from other cultural influences, you should put energy into explaining the reasons why you have your way of living instead of the standard american one.

This way your kid may voluntarily keep the lifestyle you teach them, instead of just keeping it, because it was indoctrinated into it

Depends how you teach your children. If you teach your children that all worldviews are equal, you never know what they will end up believing (probably what is popular with their peers.)

The Christian way is to teach that there is only one truth (Jesus). And the ways of the world are wrong. This doesn't produce bigots. It produces Christians. Only teaching bigotry produces bigots.

[rah]

When I was in my teens I was sympathetic to such an argument. I am less so now, especially now that I have gone without all TV (even netflix) for some time.

JM
(I also tend to think that it is school that mostly condemns kids and makes them miserable for being a 'freak', once she gets to college people are more mature and accepting. If she doesn't attend US school, her not watching US TV will not be a problem.)

Yeah, you're probably right then, but will she have friends? I'm not saying she should be immersed in it, but a familiarity is not that bad of a thing.

[Jon Miller]

Of course she will have friends. Church and activity and school friends. As I said, we intend to put her school just outside of the US (although really, we need to carefully consider schools outside of the US too, they aren't necessarily better).

JM

[Proteus_MST]

Depends how you teach your children. If you teach your children that all worldviews are equal, you never know what they will end up believing (probably what is popular with their peers.)

The Christian way is to teach that there is only one truth (Jesus). And the ways of the world are wrong. This doesn't produce bigots. It produces Christians. Only teaching bigotry produces bigots.

I agree, it depends on how you teach your children.

And this is independent of whether you keep your kids out of school or whether you put them into a public school.
No matter whether you homeschool them or you put them into a public school, sooner or later they will move out of their parents home and be confronted with the different lifestyles out there (well, unless they live in a secluded sect like premise and never ever leave it, of course).
So, you may just delay the decision the kids have to take (the latest, when they become adults) ... on whether they will keep their parents lifestyle/religion, or adapt another one

[kentonio]

So you're going to indoctrinate her into church too?

[Kidlicious]

I agree, it depends on how you teach your children.

And this is independent of whether you keep your kids out of school or whether you put them into a public school.
No matter whether you homeschool them or you put them into a public school, sooner or later they will move out of their parents home and be confronted with the different lifestyles out there (well, unless they live in a secluded sect like premise and never ever leave it, of course).
So, you may just delay the decision the kids have to take (the latest, when they become adults) ... on whether they will keep their parents lifestyle/religion, or adapt another one

There's some evidence that exposure to other cultures determines whether or not people will be liberal or conservative. When you have to do business with people from other cultures you tend to not believe in your own beliefs as strongly.

[Jon Miller]

It isn't about delaying or limiting their decision. It is about what their education is.

I can't really understand how you can't see that if someone is taught 90% of one thing and 10% of something else, the 90% is going to dominate their education and life view.... even if the 10% is done really well. People know what they are taught. It is true for science, and it is true with ethics, perspective, morality, culture and so on too.

Also things like attitude towards money and savings and so on.

I don't even take the greatest exception to the intellectual 'Western Reason' culture, as that was a significant part (but not only part) of my own education. I take a greater exception to consumerist/hedonist/individualist/etc 'mass culture' that people are bombarded with.

Most people (and that includes US Christians) adapt that culture not because it is better but because that is what they are taught through their childhoods.

JM

[kentonio]

There's some evidence that exposure to other cultures determined whether or not people will be liberal or conservative. When you have to do business with people from other cultures you tend to not believe in your own beliefs as strongly.

Why do you imagine that might be?

[Kidlicious]

Why do you imagine that might be?

Money

[Proteus_MST]

It isn't about delaying or limiting their decision. It is about what their education is.

I can't really understand how you can't see that if someone is taught 90% of one thing and 10% of something else, the 90% is going to dominate their education and life view.... even if the 10% is done really well. People know what they are taught. It is true for science, and it is true with ethics, perspective, morality, culture and so on too.

Also things like attitude towards money and savings and so on.

I don't even take the greatest exception to the intellectual 'Western Reason' culture, as that was a significant part (but not only part) of my own education. I take a greater exception to consumerist/hedonist/individualist/etc 'mass culture' that people are bombarded with.

Most people (and that includes US Christians) adapt that culture not because it is better but because that is what they are taught through their childhoods.

JM

I don't think so.
I just have to look at my own life:

I grew up in Ruhr valley ... in this region (especially during the 80s) high percentage of people are soccer fans.
Esüecially at school, most of my friends were soccer fans and many of them even were in the youth team of the local soccer club ...
one of the sports teachers in my Gymnasium even was youth trainer at a soccer club.
Aside from this my father also was a soccer fan.

So, according to your 90% rule, I should be a big soccer fan as well, or at least strongly interested in soccer.
But actually soccer doesn't interest me all too much (and never has).


I also have been educated in a christian way, have been confirmed and would, till maybe the middle of end of my twenties, called myself a christian.
Now I don't anymore.
Not because of atheists, but because of something christian fundamentalists cherrypicking stuff from the bible.

I thought about it and had to agree, that everyone cherrypicks the stuff from the bible (including the fundamentalists themselves) ... and disregards the stuff in the bible, that either is contradtory (with nowadays scientific knowledge) or is incompatible with nowadays morals (and/or paintsa a rather dark picture of god himself).
I also saw that according to this principle (i.e. staying true to the bible) most christians wouldn't be considered christians ... and that, in order to stay true nto the bible, one would have to throw most of the science overboard and also adapt (nowadays) rather dubious morals.

So, I actually don't think that non-christian influences within society are responsible for me turning away from christian religion

Therefore, nope, I don't think that it is necessarily the quantity of exposure to certain lifestyles/religions, that matters most ... rather the quality of the lifestyle/religion and your own personality and thinking

[Jon Miller]

There are always exceptions. My friend is even more of one than I.

But I can look at my siblings and cousins and all the normal people. They are how they are because of their environment, on average.

This is obviously true.

You have to look at statistics.

And if it wasn't true, you wouldn't be disagreeing with me and maintaining that I and others should raise our children in a different way than we intend to.

JM

[Lorizael]

Psychology has a severe 'progressive western' bias.

JM

This is a really lame argument that doesn't refute anything in particular.

[Jon Miller]

So you're going to indoctrinate her into church too?

I love her don't I?

She already talks about church and asks to read about Jesus.



JM