Agnostic answers

[ricketyclik]

I don't think you understand what that means. What are the facts that prove that miracles don't happen?

I don't have any. Nor any that prove they do. Hence agnosticism. Where are your proofs?

[Kidlicious]

I don't have any. Nor any that prove they do. Hence agnosticism. Where are your proofs?

Why did you tell me not to let facts and evidence get in the way then?

I don't believe because of facts. I didn't find any, but I wanted to know anyway, and this is the only way that works.

[loinburger]

I wanted to know that I'm big in the trousers, so I chose to believe that I'm big in the trousers. Because that's how knowledge and belief actually work.

[Kidlicious]

I wanted to know that I'm big in the trousers, so I chose to believe that I'm big in the trousers. Because that's how knowledge and belief actually work.

Anyone who has faith in such things doesn't believe with a pure heart. You have to pee sitting down so that you can't see how small your genitals are. But I never have to look away from anything. You are like the prisoners in Plato's Cave who prefer to believe a lie.

[ricketyclik]

Anyone who has faith in such things doesn't believe with a pure heart. You have to pee sitting down so that you can't see how small your genitals are. But I never have to look away from anything. You are like the prisoners in Plato's Cave who prefer to believe a lie.

And that lie is... ?

[loinburger]

Hey Kidicious, are you capable of / at risk of believing anything that is false, or does your infallibility "pure heart" prevent this? Or is it that you're only infallible when talking about an incomprehensibly powerful being that is too overwhelming for the human mind to grasp?

As to your likely response of "I'm not claiming to be infallible," you are claiming to have perfect understanding of God such that you have zero doubt that you know what God wants - perfect knowledge of an infallible being is transitive infallibility

I'd say that you really should be talking to your minister about your delusions of grandeur, but it sounds like you've already damned him to hell for disagreeing with you about somethingoranother

[grumbler]

Insofar as I may be heard by anything, which may or may not care what I say, I ask, if it matters, that I be forgiven for anything I may have done or failed to do which requires forgiveness. Conversely, if not forgiveness but something else may be required to insure any possible benefit for which I may be eligible after the destruction of my body, I ask that this, whatever it may be, be granted or withheld, as the case may be, in such a manner as to insure my receiving said benefit. I ask this in my capacity as an intermediary between myself and that which may not be myself, but which may have an interest in the matter of my receiving as much as it is possible for me to receive of this thing, and which may in some way be influenced by this ceremony. Amen.

(apologies to Roger Zelazny)

[Kidlicious]

And that lie is... ?

I said that you are like them. You refuse to believe the truth.

[Kidlicious]

Hey Kidicious, are you capable of / at risk of believing anything that is false, or does your infallibility "pure heart" prevent this? Or is it that you're only infallible when talking about an incomprehensibly powerful being that is too overwhelming for the human mind to grasp?

As to your likely response of "I'm not claiming to be infallible," you are claiming to have perfect understanding of God such that you have zero doubt that you know what God wants - perfect knowledge of an infallible being is transitive infallibility

I'd say that you really should be talking to your minister about your delusions of grandeur, but it sounds like you've already damned him to hell for disagreeing with you about somethingoranother

If I were infallible what would I need God for?

I don't Really have a pure heart. I was using that concept as a reference for you to understand how ridiculous it is to have faith in your ability to find truth by doubting that which you have the highest passion for because of what some ancient social reject said.

[loinburger]

I was using that concept as a reference for you to understand how ridiculous it is to have faith in your ability to find truth by doubting that which you have the highest passion for because of what some ancient social reject said.

This is a meaningless word salad

[Kidlicious]

This is a meaningless word salad

Are you interested in the truth or not? If not don't waste my time.

[loinburger]

Of course I'm interested in the truth, but by your own admission you have zero evidence that you have a lock on the truth so why should anybody listen to anything that you have to say? Your arguments all essentially boil down to "everybody but me is stupid and is going to hell." You've been wrong about many things in the past, so why should anybody believe that you can't possibly be wrong about your religious beliefs?

[Kidlicious]

Of course I'm interested in the truth, but by your own admission you have zero evidence that you have a lock on the truth so why should anybody listen to anything that you have to say? Your arguments all essentially boil down to "everybody but me is stupid and is going to hell." You've been wrong about many things in the past, so why should anybody believe that you can't possibly be wrong about your religious beliefs?

No, I'm asking you how bad you want to know the truth, not to get you to believe what I believe. It's so that you will find a way to believe in the truth.

[loinburger]

You've said that your way of "believing" in the truth is to simply invent something that pleases you, that you have zero evidence that you actually know the truth. What could I possibly have to learn from your example except that you prefer to believe in a pleasant lie than to seek out a possibly unpleasant truth?

[Kidlicious]

You've said that your way of "believing" in the truth is to simply invent something that pleases you, that you have zero evidence that you actually know the truth. What could I possibly have to learn from your example except that you prefer to believe in a pleasant lie than to seek out a possibly unpleasant truth?

What makes you think that I want to believe in a pleasant lie? If I did why would I be talking to you about such matters? Is this discussion suppose to help me believe said lie? I could just stay at church all day couldn't I?

I have no interest in lies. Believing in lies causes anxiety. You must constantly distract yourself from the truth.