Zealot

[Kidlicious]

Dictionaries all say agnostics don't believe in God because you can't prove it. If not being provable is a reason not to believe then agnostics should have no beliefs that can't be proven.

[Aeson]

... and thus Logic and Reason also are proven wrong by Kid ...

[Kropotkin]

Sigh. Probably should have made a thread about the book on Neandertal cognition I read instead.

If you would have done so it would probably drifted into the cesspool of using evolutionary psychology to justify racism and social darwinism. You can chose your Hell, but that is about it.

I have actually read Zealot. As far as I can remember I found the argument quite good and convincing, although I not at all well read in that academic field. I think it sound to start out from what few reliable facts we have (he died) and build up a plausible narrative from what we know about the political, social and religious context.

[ricketyclik]

Oh really? You're pretty against christians, and for stupid reasons. For example, you've said more than one time that people like me are mentally ill simply because we have strong religious convictions.

Maybe you like to project your own faults into others, and who better, in your mind, than Christians, who you despise.

I don't think you're mentally ill because you're a Christian, but for the way you conduct yourself on Apolyton. You quote definitions, and then claim they mean something other than what is there in print. You argue with illogic, and a page later use someone's logic that they were using against you against either them or someone else.

I've known quite a few people with mental illnesses, and many of them do these things too. I didn't "accuse" you of being mentally ill, I merely observed it and suggested you may want to have that looked at.

I know many Christians who I like and respect. I know of many I don't. I admit, I find the blind following of a faith - and I know many Christians don't do this, but plenty do, as do members of other religions - somewhat... Lazy. Dimwitted. Pathetic.

As for agnosticism...

agnostic
An agnostic is a person who believes that the existence of a greater power, such as a god, cannot be proven or disproved; therefore an agnostic wallows in the complexity of the existence of higher beings.

Agnostics on religion (Christianity, Islam, Buddhists, etc): Religious zealots are often viewed as ignorant by agnostics’ because of their blind following of a supreme being which may or may not exist. Agnostics will often question the existence of a supreme power because a lot of modern religious beliefs have no basis in modern logic; therefore blind following of popular religions is viewed as an easy out for people who chose not to think for themselves.

Agnostics on atheism: On the other end of the spectrum, unlike atheists, an agnostic uses a more scientific approach to their belief system. An agnostic knows that just because there is no physical proof of the existence of a higher being, it dose not automatically mean that one does not exist. An agnostic views an atheist on the same plane as a religious zealot; often because the belief that human beings are the pinnacle of intelligence and there are few things that we do not or have the potential to understand.

The realization of knowing that “we cannot know everything” is the backbone of the agnostic belief.
Christian Zealot: God loves you and everyone. He will save you
Agnostic: Prove it.

Atheist: There is no way that a god can exist.
Agnostic: Prove it.

[Proteus_MST]

Dictionaries all say agnostics don't believe in God because you can't prove it. If not being provable is a reason not to believe then agnostics should have no beliefs that can't be proven.

According to the philosopher William L. Rowe, "agnosticism is the view that human reason is incapable of providing sufficient rational grounds to justify either the belief that God exists or the belief that God does not exist."^[2] Agnosticism is a doctrine or set of tenets^[4] rather than a religion as such.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agnosticism

Agnostics neiter belioeve that god does exist, nor that he doesn't exist ... they leave the question open

[Kidlicious]

And that definition does nothing to prove your point only mine. You're arguing like BK at this point so I'm going to drop it so that people can talk about the book.

I will say that your judgement of people like me for blindly following beliefs is idiotic. As Kierkegaard said, "when you label me, you negate me." Your intention has obviously been to negate me. Therefore you argue against a strawman.

X-post

[Kidlicious]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agnosticism

Agnostics neiter belioeve that god does exist, nor that he doesn't exist ... they leave the question open

... because you can't prove that God exists, or that he doesn't exist. Are you missing my point?

[ricketyclik]

If you know with certainty that you don't have religious beliefs then you are an atheist, one that lies, calling yourself something that you aren't, and saying that you believe something that you don't. That's just what I expected because I'm very skeptical of people who claim not to believe anything. Believing is human nature IMO.

Umm... Remember this?

[ricketyclik]

Sorry Lori. Let's take it back over to the agnostic thread Kid.

[Lorizael]

If you would have done so it would probably drifted into the cesspool of using evolutionary psychology to justify racism and social darwinism. You can chose your Hell, but that is about it.

Indeed. I spoke with a customer awhile back who (completely unrelated to this book) made the following awesome argument: Neandertals had to be very smart to survive during an Ice Age -> Early humans never would have made progress if they hadn't interbred with Neandertals -> Scientists did tests and showed that Africans currently living in Africa did not interbreed with Neandertals, proving that Africans never left Africa and therefore cannot be our ultimate ancestors. Then she went on a rant about how she knew all this 40 years ago (from the Bible, I think) but scientists are just now figuring it out. "They're so stupid!" she said. Then paused. Then continued, "The scientists, I mean."