Zealot

[Elok]

Evil bastard educators cannot comprehend racial slop destroys nature's four race harmony and deserve death!

[ricketyclik]

You mean like agnosticism?

One of the reasons I believe in Jesus is because he was different. If you think Jesus was a common person you don't understand him.

Yes, yes, exactly like agnosticism. Agnostics make up the idea that they don't claim to know these things in order to delude believers.

[Kidlicious]

Yes, yes, exactly like agnosticism. Agnostics make up the idea that they don't claim to know these things in order to delude believers.

You seriously believe that there is something special about yourself and your beliefs? There isn't. How am I to believe that you don't actually believe anything? Because you say so?

[Proteus_MST]

This is the way tradition was explained to me when I became a member of the church, it's the accumulation of reason. What is your definition? Jesus didn't believe things just because others before him believed them. Claiming that he believed in tradition is flat out ridiculous. Anyone who believes in tradition is a fool.

I don't think you understand Jesus very well. Practicing the Sabbath on Sunday or Saturday doesn't really matter. Please show me where Jesus insisted that the Sabbath be practiced on a particular day.

Obviously practicing Sabbath on Sunday, instead of Saturday, matters, else the christians wouldn't have changed the day of Sabbath (I guess in order to separate themselves from Jews).

And that's why I think that Jesus also didn't want to change the date of Sabbath ... because I see Jesus as a jewish preacher in the jewish context, who never desired his followers to become non-Jews.

But I understand that you have to think otherwise, considering that you think of Jesus as the son of god and founder of your religion (and therefore have to hieve Jesus on a piedestal and fit him into a person that coincides with nowadays christianity)

Which, I guess, is why we are bound to disagree on this topic

[Kidlicious]

Obviously practicing Sabbath on Sunday, instead of Saturday, matters, else the christians wouldn't have changed the day of Sabbath (I guess in order to separate themselves from Jews).

And that's why I think that Jesus also didn't want to change the date of Sabbath ... because I see Jesus as a jewish preacher in the jewish context, who never desired his followers to become non-Jews.

But I understand that you have to think otherwise, considering that you think of Jesus as the son of god and founder of your religion (and therefore have to hieve Jesus on a piedestal and fit him into a person that coincides with nowadays christianity)

Which, I guess, is why we are bound to disagree on this topic

The Sabbath was not changed because Saturday is Jew Sabbath. Jesus had no reason to change the Sabbath to Sunday either.

[Proteus_MST]

The Sabbath was not changed because Saturday is Jew Sabbath. Jesus had no reason to change the Sabbath to Sunday either.

Well, christians changed it, by making Sunday into a Sabbath-like holiday and not observing Sabbath on saturday altogether.

Although I have to admit that there are a few christian sects that observe the saturday as Sabbath ... which, however, is merely returning to the old status quo before the church changed it (and with the majority of christians having sunday as sabbath like holiday)

[Kidlicious]

Well, christians changed it, by making Sunday into a Sabbath-like holiday and not observing Sabbath on saturday altogether.

Although I have to admit that there are a few christian sects that observe the saturday as Sabbath ... which, however, is merely returning to the old status quo before the church changed it (and with the majority of christians having sunday as sabbath like holiday)

The Sabbath is actually observed by pretty much all Christians. It simply doesn't matter that you do it any particular way. Actually the ancients practiced the Sabbath to give thanks to God by doing no work for one day (Saturday), but common Christian belief is to give every day to God.

[ricketyclik]

You seriously believe that there is something special about yourself and your beliefs? There isn't. How am I to believe that you don't actually believe anything? Because you say so?

Descending to ad hominem already? What exactly are my stated beliefs, Kid?

[Kidlicious]

Descending to ad hominem already? What exactly are my stated beliefs, Kid?

Obviously that you have no beliefs. Now answer my question. How should I determine if you are lying or telling the truth?

[ricketyclik]

You can't. That's the point, really.

[Kidlicious]

You can't. That's the point, really.

Do you know whether or not you have beliefs or not?

[Elok]

And that's why I think that Jesus also didn't want to change the date of Sabbath ... because I see Jesus as a jewish preacher in the jewish context, who never desired his followers to become non-Jews.

This view is inconsistent with the actual behavior of Jesus in the Gospels. He consistently presents himself, and is presented, as superhuman--if not absolutely and unequivocally the Son of God (outside of John's Gospel), at the very least far more than a conventional prophet or preacher. He is never shown expressing doubt, or moral weakness, nor is there any distance between Him and God--He is never shown (outside of Gethsemane) in conversation with God, let alone argument, which most Jewish prophets engaged in nigh-constantly. You never see Elijah blazing with light, or casually walking on water; OT miracles are generally done at explicit instruction from YHWH ("take your cloak and strike the water"), which Jesus never seems to need. Moreover He frequently argues for doctrinal change on His own authority, and modifies Mosaic Law on the fly, or introduces whole new customs like the Eucharist. His entire message--"repent, for the Kingdom of Heaven is at hand"--is based on the overturning of existing order. Jesus can only be reduced to a simple preacher by waving away all of the many contradictory instances in the text with "that part is an interpolation."

[Elok]

I take this DP as a sacred sign that Jon Miller agrees with me.

[Kidlicious]

Don't you doubt your beliefs? , because that's what you said. Were you lying or trolling?

[ricketyclik]

Do you know whether or not you have beliefs or not?

Yes, I know that I don't have religious beliefs. I have opinions, but I know that that's all they are, and that there's no way to verify or deny them.