EU Referendum - La Deuxième Partie

[Bereta_Eder]

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...on-seven-years

The shape of post Brexit UK's relationship with the EU is starting to take shape and it looks a hell of a lot like the deal Cameron tried to make but which Merkel refused prior to the Brexit vote. Free trade will be preserved, the UK will get an emergency break to stop or restrict immigration up to 10 years at a time, new comers will be blocked from access to welfare for up to four years and/or have welfare access phased in in proportion to how much they have paid into the system, and while the UK will still contribute to the EU budget it's costs will go down substantially. The only real downside is the UK will lose its seats in the EU as it will no longer be a member. If Merkel hadn't been such a **** to Cameron something like this could have been agreed on last year and Brexit avoided.

Oh, and I am not surprised the French were trying to be ***** like they always are.

It's posts like this that always make me breath a sigh of relief because once I used to take dinner seriously

[Dinner]

What was the word you used to describe Merkel's behavior?

It begins and ends with t and also contains a w and an a. T w a t.

[kentonio]

If Merkel hadn't been such a **** to Cameron something like this could have been agreed on last year and Brexit avoided.

Oh, and I am not surprised the French were trying to be ***** like they always are.

Why would France or Germany roll over to Britain and agree to preferential treatment that the other member states don't get? Frankly I'm just amazed they haven't just told us to **** off more often.

[Bereta_Eder]

They are kind of stunted like rabbits for the time being

[Dinner]

Why would France or Germany roll over to Britain and agree to preferential treatment that the other member states don't get? Frankly I'm just amazed they haven't just told us to **** off more often.

Because the alternative is worse for them.

[kentonio]

Because the alternative is worse for them.

Not really, the alternative is to fuel anti-EU movements in the other 27 member states by making them all ask 'why don't we get this kind of deal too?'.

[Dauphin]

Not really, the alternative is to fuel anti-EU movements in the other 27 member states by making them all ask 'why don't we get this kind of deal too?'.

Doesn't this all presuppose that the EU is set up to not be good for many or possibly most countries and is fundamentally self-harming? If that were true (glib jokes and bureaucratic red tape aside) then I'd expect all countries would quickly agree a better deal for all, along the UK model.

[Dauphin]

Or another way - does it not imply, if true, that the EU is not benefitting its people.

[kentonio]

Doesn't this all presuppose that the EU is set up to not be good for many or possibly most countries and is fundamentally self-harming? If that were true (glib jokes and bureaucratic red tape aside) then I'd expect all countries would quickly agree a better deal for all, along the UK model.

Not really. To get an overall benefit generally requires some form of sacrifice, especially when you're aiming for a long term equalization of members to benefit everyone.

[Dauphin]

Not really. To get an overall benefit generally requires some form of sacrifice, especially when you're aiming for a long term equalization of members to benefit everyone.

Saying no to the UK is not really about stopping others joining a beggar thy neighbour run to the exit, if the benefits of not exiting are still better than the alternative. It's about getting the best deal for the EU in a trade negotiation.

[Bereta_Eder]

[kentonio]

Saying no to the UK is not really about stopping others joining a beggar thy neighbour run to the exit, if the benefits of not exiting are still better than the alternative. It's about getting the best deal for the EU in a trade negotiation.

It's not about a rush for the exit, the Brexiteers want the benefits of the arrangement without the costs. If they are given them, then the other parties are going to start seriously asking why they should have to contribute when one party is just freeloading.

[flipside]

The issue is that fundamentally the UK has taken most of the Eastern European immigration "Brain Drain" that has both f*cked over Poland and the UK working/underclass.


Everyone else was smart and put a brake on. The UK allowed 1m of Poland's etc best to come over and compete against the 0-5 GCSE working class. While not building infrastructure.

It's not surprising that when you cut their wages and make them compete against degree holders and build no houses that the "peasants" pick up the forks and torches.

Imo.

If you call them racists and **** as well...then they ain't exactly on your side..

[kentonio]

True. Although a lot of them are racists.

[Dinner]

The issue is that fundamentally the UK has taken most of the Eastern European immigration "Brain Drain" that has both f*cked over Poland and the UK working/underclass.


Everyone else was smart and put a brake on. The UK allowed 1m of Poland's etc best to come over and compete against the 0-5 GCSE working class. While not building infrastructure.

It's not surprising that when you cut their wages and make them compete against degree holders and build no houses that the "peasants" pick up the forks and torches.

Imo.

If you call them racists and **** as well...then they ain't exactly on your side..

All true. The UK did agree to open up to free movement from the east while most of western Europe kept the doors shut for as long as possible and there certainly has been a popular backlash by the working classes as tgey saw wages eitger stagnate or decline due to both world economic conditions but also due to the local increase in the labor supply which bid down wages. Add on that a large number of the eastern new comers use social services and thus are competing with the native lower class for limited resources (such as access to council housing which you mentioned) and you have the makings of a populist backlash.

A better solution would have been for Merkel and Junckers to have been intelligent enough to recognize this and to have believed Cameron when he told them the UK needed a way to put a break on free movement and access to welfare by new comers to help calm down the populist uprising. Sadly, Merkel and Junckers were as arrogant and tone deaf as always and refused any meaningful compromise thus why Brexit passed. The lesson here is it is better to recognize political realities and give a little rsther than remain arrogant and lose a lot.