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New Mexico Court Orders Mother to Take Religious Counseling or Lose Custody of Kids

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  • New Mexico Court Orders Mother to Take Religious Counseling or Lose Custody of Kids

    Here's a story that might get some a little ticked off. Holly Salzman, went to court to get help co-parenting with her ex. She, was ordered by the court to take 10 counselling classes for parents. Salzman, was ordered to see Mary Pepper, who bills herself as an educator, mentor and teacher. Salzman thought she was going to counselling classes. Little did she know, the counselling amounted to classes on religion.


    When Kim Davis was sent to jail because she defied a court order to issue marriage licenses to same sex couples, Republicans seized the moment to claim Davis was a victim of judicial tyranny by a court that violated her right to freedom of religion. If Davis and her defenders want to know what a violation religious freedom looks like, they should look at what happened to Holly Salzman, a single mother in New Mexico. Holly Salzman went to a New Mexico District court for help co-parenting her children with her ex-husband. The court ordered Salzman to attend 10 counselling classes for parents. The order included a referral to Mary Pepper, who describes herself as an educator, mentor and teacher. Salzman thought she was going to counselling sessions. Little did she know that the counselling really amounted to classes on religion. The first thing Pepper said to Salzman when they met for their first session is that she begins every counselling session with a prayer. Salzman told Pepper she doesn’t pray. Pepper responded to Salzman’s concerns saying “well it’s what I do” and proceeded with the prayer.
    What would you do? Continue? Walk out? Salzman, complained about the religious undertones of classes with Pepper, The Court did not respond to her concerns. Pepper opened the second session with another prayer. If the counselor only had her own prayer for personal guidance, I may say Salzman over-reacted, but there is more than an opening prayer to suffer through. More of the article:


    Salzman went back to court and expressed her concerns about the religious overtones in her counselling sessions with Pepper. According to Salzman, the court said they hadn’t heard any problems regarding Mary Pepper with religion. Offended and disgusted, Salzman stopped going to the court-ordered sessions. The court took Salzman’s kids away. The only way Salzman could get her kids back was to finish the classes. In other words, Holly Salzman was ordered to attended counselling sessions. Based on the available facts, the Court ignored Salzman’s objections to the religious undertones of the counselling sessions. The court presumably found her in contempt when Salzman refused to complete the ordered sessions. That was when she lost custody of her children. Getting them back meant attending court ordered religion classes – in violation of Holly Salzman’s first amendment rights. KRQE went undercover to video and audio tape the final three classes between Salzman and Pepper. There were several references to religion.


    Pepper told Salzman,“The meaning in my life is to know and serve God. If you want to explore how God was in your past, how God was in your life and not in your life …. I know you don’t believe in God which is fine but I know at some points he was in your life in some way.”Pepper gave Salzman handouts with religious quotes. As a homework assignment Salzman had to write an essay titled “who is God to me?”

    Now Salzman has since got her children back. But still what a ride. I don't agree with the court or Pepper. Violation of Church & State? When Salzman defied the order, the court took her kids which means Holly Salzman was punished for her religious beliefs? The only way Salzman could get her kids back was to comply. Pepper, also wants paid in cash under the table! The video investigation shows that Pepper knowingly circumvents the law with her practice and is breaking the law.
    Full Article and Video Source: http://www.politicususa.com/2015/09/...sing-kids.html

  • #2
    i hate people who pray around others

    psychos just want to control everyone

    BOW YOUR HEADS SHEEP

    ****ing morons

    and the bible even says to pray in private

    fail at their own damn religion
    To us, it is the BEAST.

    Comment


    • #3
      religion is dying in the west

      good riddens
      To us, it is the BEAST.

      Comment


      • #4
        Admittedly, nowadays, my head only bows down due to me rubbing my increasing headache! Most prayers drone on unendingly and repitition of words seems to be needed for their God to understand he is being summoned.

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        • #5
          Religion: the belief in a god or in a group of gods

          : an organized system of beliefs, ceremonies, and rules used to worship a god or a group of gods

          : an interest, a belief, or an activity that is very important to a person or group

          Is this really much different than when the court orders people to go to 12 step programs like AA? That seems highly religious to me also. Look at some of the 12 steps.

          2. Came to believe that a Power greater than ourselves could restore us to sanity.
          3. Made a decision to turn our will and our lives over to the care of God as we understood Him.
          5. Admitted to God, to ourselves, and to another human being the exact nature of our wrongs.
          6. Were entirely ready to have God remove all these defects of character.
          7. Humbly asked Him to remove our shortcomings.
          11. Sought through prayer and meditations to improve our conscious contact with God as we understood Him, praying only for knowledge of His will for us and the power to carry that out.


          Half of the steps are about God which reeks of religion to me. Are these type of court appointed programs violating the Separation of Church and State? Or is it only certain religions which do that?

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          • #6
            Was was she required to use the referral, or could she have picked another service out of the phone book?
            No, I did not steal that from somebody on Something Awful.

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            • #7
              There needs to be jail sentences for corrupt officials who use the powers of their office to force their religious views upon other people. Only then will this abuse stop.
              Try http://wordforge.net/index.php for discussion and debate.

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              • #8
                According to Salzman, the court said they hadn’t heard any problems regarding Mary Pepper with religion. Offended and disgusted, Salzman stopped going to the court-ordered sessions.
                Sounds more like she overreacted.
                No, I did not steal that from somebody on Something Awful.

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                • #9
                  Yes, agreed. She should just have recorded a session (with permission) and then played it back to the judge and asked for a different counselor.
                  It's almost as if all his overconfident, absolutist assertions were spoonfed to him by a trusted website or subreddit. Sheeple
                  RIP Tony Bogey & Baron O

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                  • #10
                    The article states that the court chose the counselor and refused to change the order to another counselor.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      According to Salzman, the court said they hadn’t heard any problems regarding Mary Pepper with religion
                      A recording would have counted as a complaint and it would have been harder for the judge to ignore.
                      It's almost as if all his overconfident, absolutist assertions were spoonfed to him by a trusted website or subreddit. Sheeple
                      RIP Tony Bogey & Baron O

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I don't think she over-reacted either. The video investigation taken over 3 counseling sessions showed this counselor was pushing her ideology. The court saying that they had no other complaints regarding Pepper is rediculous. Many that are religious would not obviously complain. The courts should have just ordered her to see another counselor.

                        Would those saying she over-reacted be saying the same if the counselor was pushing another form of religion? Would a Christian be upset praying to another God that they don't agree with?

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                        • #13
                          I for my part would just have stated that I won´t take part in the prayer due to my own (Dis-)beliefs
                          and would only have issued a complaint, if they would have tried to force me to take part in the prayer ...
                          or if me not taking part would have resulted in me not passing the course.
                          Or, of course, if the parenting course would have included lession in religion.

                          Tolerance is always two sided.
                          I don´t care about witnessing religious rituals,
                          as long as they don´t affect me in any negative way or I get forced to take part ...
                          and as long as noone is trying to convert me

                          Addendum:
                          In this special case I definitely would have complained as, according to the quotes, she tried to force her beliefs on people taking part in the course (for example with the homework assignment)
                          Last edited by Proteus_MST; September 16, 2015, 15:13.
                          Tamsin (Lost Girl): "I am the Harbinger of Death. I arrive on winds of blessed air. Air that you no longer deserve."
                          Tamsin (Lost Girl): "He has fallen in battle and I must take him to the Einherjar in Valhalla"

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Shouldn't even have to go to classes. Did she break a law?
                            I drank beer. I like beer. I still like beer. ... Do you like beer Senator?
                            - Justice Brett Kavanaugh

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                            • #15
                              felonious fuckery
                              To us, it is the BEAST.

                              Comment

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