GOP "debate"

[Sava]

People rarely blame themselves. Or at least the masses anyway.

Blame is useless and just a tool for angry old farts to express their rage at the fact that they can't live decent lives anymore, so they **** on the young.

Also, it's a neat little way for you to not take responsibility. "It's everyone else's fault"... mmmhmmmm sure

I mean, hasn't your generation screwed up America enough? Everyone over 50 should do the country a favor and stay home on election day.

[rah]

You're describing the younger generation not the older one.
especially

it's a neat little way for you to not take responsibility. "It's everyone else's fault"... mmmhmmmm sure

I live a decent life and should do ok when I retire.

I've worked hard and been responsible for over 40 years, How about you?

And actually it was the "greatest generation" that passed most of the entitlement programs. I'll admit our politicians were too chicken**** to make sure they were funded well enough, but that's standard for any politician.

I mean, hasn't your generation screwed up America enough? Everyone over 50 should do the country a favor and stay home on election day.

Hmmm, sounds like you're looking to blame someone else.

[Sava]

You mortgaged our future to pay for your life.

[Sava]

Literally. I mean, what would the marginal tax rate on your income level be without the Bush tax cuts?

I have a good idea of how much you make, rah. You are the poster child for the current economic crisis and debt issues.

also, my generation didn't want to go to iraq (younger generations were too young at the time, but generally agree with everyone that it was a bad idea)

so **** off with that too

[Sava]

seething ageism is the theme today

[Alexander's Horse]

The debates are on Fox so at least we know they will be "fair and balanced"

[Sir Og]

The direct democracy in switrzerland surely has produced some good decisions ... for example banning transiting goods traffic from the streets (and forcing the transiting trucks to pass through switzerland via train).

On the other hand not everything decided in switzerland was good (at least not in the beginning). For example women in switzerland gained the right to vote as the last country in europe ... the first referendum (in which only men could vote) in 1959 produced a majority against giving women the rights to vote.
Only after the second referendum in 1971, women were given the rights to vote ... but still not in every canton. In some cantons women were barred from voting on local decisions till 1991 (when it was decided that federal law (with regarded on womens suffrage) superseded local law).

(and I actually wonder how direct democracy would work out if it wouldn´t be implemented in a small country like switzerland, but in a rather large country like germany or the USA)

The thing I like the most about direct democracy is that it makes it harder for the people to lie to themselves that it is not the stupid votes that they cast but the corrupt politicians that produce the bad outcomes. When there is a direct link between the vote and the outcome people will learn.
Also direct democracy allows for the people to express what they think on each specific subject/problem while with representative democracy it comes down to expressing tribal affiliations. Anything that would help us move beyond/away from our tribal roots is a good thing IMHO.

Large-scale direct democracy would be a total disaster. Especially economically. People are stupid.

People are indeed stupid but the "wisdom of the crowds" is surprisingly good. Most "experts" don't perform a lot better than the crowd. Very often they do as good as a coin flip. (especially in fields such as economics)

[rah]

I have a good idea of how much you make, rah. You are the poster child for the current economic crisis and debt issues.

What does that have to do with it? I make a good living after years of working hard to support my family. In 14 months I will owe nothing. Obviously I don't believe in kicking debt down the road. I make sure it's paid.

Heck I didn't ask for the Bush tax cuts.

I didn't vote to attack Iraq.

Where do you come up with this stuff?

Certainly not at work.

[Imran Siddiqui]

I would point out if you voted for Bush, you voted for his tax cuts - because that was a main campaign promise of his.

And voting for him in 2004 was a vote to perpetuate the war in Iraq, of course.

[rah]

Out of the two elections he was in, I only voted for him once. That time I thought his opponent was an idiot.

With only two candidates, there is no way you're going to agree 100% with either of them so quit throwing that out there.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Doesn't matter if you don't agree with them 100% or not, you are responsible for the policies of who you vote for. They are your representative after all - hence they make policy representing you.

[rah]

I'll agree with you when we start having real choices.

Most elections I'm voting against someone. Which doesn't mean I support the other.

[Proteus_MST]

Out of the two elections he was in, I only voted for him once. That time I thought his opponent was an idiot.

With only two candidates, there is no way you're going to agree 100% with either of them so quit throwing that out there.

Which IMHO is a big problem ...
with 2 powerful parties most people are dissuaded from voting for other parties,
under the assumption that they throw away their vote by voting for one of the other, minor, parties.
Even if the program of one of the minor parties would fit much better into the wishes/opinions of the voter/s than the program of republicans or democrats.
(a problem we have, on a minor scale, in germany as well, but definitely not as extreme as in the USA)

[rah]

Yep, A big problem considering who usually rises to the top.

And If I remember correctly Hillary voted to support the war.
She used to defend it but now that it's unpopular she has backtracked on it.

How can anyone trust anything she says? Or know what she actually stands for.

I guess any German that voted for Hitler is personally responsible for every Jew that was killed.

[Imran Siddiqui]

I guess any German that voted for Hitler is personally responsible for every Jew that was killed.

Um... what exactly do you think Hitler was campaigning for? You think the Nazis were hiding their Antisemitism in their elections?!