Greek Lost and Found

[Dinner]

Also you are just a liar when you claim Greeks retire later. Their average isn't the 68 years you see in northern European countries, even your numbers were an average of 62, and there are many state sector jobs where you get a 100% pension at 55. The 68 year old pension in Germany isn't any where near 100% so you are just factually incorrect.

[C0ckney]

i marvel at your commitment to only posting the factually incorrect and the irrelevant.

as has been said many times, greece's problems are not related to productivity. greece was insolvent. the “solution” did not address this. it in fact made it much worse by shrinking the economy, while not addressing the debt problem. greece is still insolvent. that is the real problem. that is what (still) needs to be resolved.

[C0ckney]

Also you are just a liar when you claim Greeks retire later. Their average isn't the 68 years you see in northern European countries, even your numbers were an average of 62, and there are many state sector jobs where you get a 100% pension at 55. The 68 year old pension in Germany isn't any where near 100% so you are just factually incorrect.

i have posted a graph that shows the average european retirement ages several times, including twice(!) in this thread. please read it. and please stop lying. if by any chance you actually believe the nonsense you post, then please back this up with some evidence.

[Dinner]

Dumb is dumb, and you are dumb.

[C0ckney]

so still no evidence, what a surprise.

[Dinner]

The Greeks had lots of things to make their economy more dynamic despite the negative effects of austarity all of 5h3 other piigs did take these measures to get their economies moving aga in and pay down debts yet Greece did none, they just sat there and cow towed to special interests, and then when nothing improved foe the better they blamed austarity imposed by foreigners rather than their own inaction.

Why did it work on four other countries but fail in Greece? Because Greece NEVER did what was needed. They never privitized, they never opened their economy, they kept it strangled by special interests and unions, they kept to regulations blocking growth.

You can ignore those facts all you want but you look just more of a fool for it. Not that that has ever bothered you.

[C0ckney]

we obviously have different definitions of fact. for me a fact is something that can be proven, such as, say, retirement ages across the EU. for you a 'fact' seems to be a threadbare and laughable 'analysis' that adds nothing to the discussion.

also "cow towed"

[Aeson]

This is a [civil] thread, discuss the topic not the poster.

[regexcellent]

Greek Lost and Found

The parts that don't agree with Cockney's looney left-wing narrative

c0ckney has failed to provide an explanation for why Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Iceland, and Ireland aren't ****ed but Greece and to a lesser extent Spain, Portugal, and Italy are. It's because people in the former countries work and pay their taxes, and they don't have vast regulatory systems with no larger purpose than to prop up a nation of cartels.

Observation: in Tallinn, anyone can be a cabbie or run a taxi company and they're allowed to charge whatever fare they want. The fares were really low and the cabbies were obviously surviving (even thriving!). I wonder what the rules are in Greece?

Let Greece be an object lesson to the rest of us in the consequences of left-wing government.

[C0ckney]

I had not read the article before now, so it's new to me. What parts are inaccurate?

there are many, but i'll limit myself to a few of the more choice ones.

this:

The Greek public-school system is the site of breathtaking inefficiency: one of the lowest-ranked systems in Europe, it nonetheless employs four times as many teachers per pupil as the highest-ranked, Finland’s.

is plainly false.

see here for the relevant OECD figures. greece has a teacher/pupil ratio of 17 or 18, whereas finland has one of 20.

this:

The retirement age for Greek jobs classified as “arduous” is as early as 55 for men and 50 for women. As this is also the moment when the state begins to shovel out generous pensions, more than 600 Greek professions somehow managed to get themselves classified as arduous: hairdressers, radio announcers, waiters, musicians, and on and on and on.

gives a very misleading impression. the truth of the matter is that greeks retire later than the EU average, and later than the french, germans and italians.

this:

The Greek public health-care system spends far more on supplies than the European average—and it is not uncommon, several Greeks tell me, to see nurses and doctors leaving the job with their arms filled with paper towels and diapers and whatever else they can plunder from the supply closets.

is just one of example of the calumnies and unsubstantiated nonsense that the article is filled with.

here are some actual OECD numbers for health expenditure:



as one can see, greece's health expenditure is lower than the OECD average, and considering that greece's population is very old - in 2006 it was the 4th oldest in the world, after monaco, italy and japan - its healthcare expenditure ought to be higher. this also explains why it spends a considerable amount on pensions.

i'm not going to waste my time fact checking the entire article, but all the things i have pointed out are easily verifiable; sadly the author didn't trouble himself to learn some basic facts before writing his hit piece, and thus he has zero credibility. the whole article is demonisation of the lowest sort designed to tell the whole story as some kind of morality tale; it's meant for consumption by the less intelligent members of society, as we can see by looking at those who've lapped it up avidly.

[C0ckney]

Article:
The country is screwed because our official numbers are totally fraudulent.
Response:
The article is a hit piece because its statistics are total refuted by the official numbers.

you are, as always, welcome to put forward any evidence you have for your claims. i shan't be holding my breath...

[pchang]

you are, as always, welcome to put forward any evidence you have for your claims. i shan't be holding my breath...

It's sad you are so wrapped up in your world view that you fail to see the humor in the irreconcilable logic of those 2 statements. Sigh.

[C0ckney]

i don't see any humour i'm afraid, just you saying nothing. plus ça change...

[Dinner]

Article:
The country is screwed because our official numbers are totally fraudulent.
Response:
The article is a hit piece because its statistics are total refuted by the official numbers.

I have mentioned that to him before. He just ignores it and keeps ranting.

[dannubis]

I stopped trying after he pulled his usual ****.