Christian business owners . . .

[Imran Siddiqui]

Scholars have a habit of losing touch with reality. Also, who is a scholar? If Ben can get a degree in History being a "scholar" in that subject doesn't mean a lot.

Is going after the "ivy tower intellectuals" really a rabbit hole you want to go down?

Furthermore, I think scholars are more than a simple undergraduate degree - I think a graduate level degree is needed for that moniker.

Anyways, what about the science scholars?

[giblets]

Is going after the "ivy tower intellectuals" really a rabbit hole you want to go down?

Furthermore, I think scholars are more than a simple undergraduate degree - I think a graduate level degree is needed for that moniker.

Anyways, what about the science scholars?

If they use the scientific method, they can't ignore reality.

[MrFun]

No, I get the feeling you didn't actually read what I said all that closely. In no particular order:

1. The Bible must be understood as a whole. Given its complexity, this means that a fair amount of interpretation is necessarily involved, and interpretations will vary. You, for example, are ostensibly Christian, but ignore or explain away all of the instances where the Bible denigrates homosexuality (I am not interested in your rationale for doing so). You also ignore (I assume) all the things you are castigating these business owners for ignoring, like divorce, etc. In effect, you are chiding them for ignoring one less part of the Bible than you do. This does not make sense.

2. In the culture war in general, and this battle in particular, these Christians are the conservative/reactionary side--the defenders of the previous status quo. What they want is essentially the way things used to be. Your side of the fight has been introducing changes to the status quo, one or two at a time, for decades. Currently, you are changing our attitude towards gay stuff, so that is what they "make a big deal about." The people who started the fight in the first place are the ones guilty of "singling out" the issue, regardless of their rightness or wrongness in doing so. They are not "picking on" bigamists, for example, because that is not currently something that people are pushing for in large numbers. It's not even legal AFAIK. They don't go for divorcees (in part) because they already lost that battle. You don't get to throw a punch, then call the other guys aggressors when they punch back (this is a metaphorical "fight" over matters of principle, so FFS don't quote "turn the other cheek" on me). That, too, would be ridiculous.

3. The issue, as I understand it, is not whether to serve gay people at all, but whether to serve them in a manner that implies acceptance of their gayness--making cakes, arranging flowers, or catering for a gay wedding, for example. That pizza place in Indiana or wherever explicitly said that they'd be fine with just baking a pie for a gay person in a non-wedding context. There is no counterpart for any of the other things you mentioned. We do not typically make cakes for divorces, prostitutes, one-night stands, etc. Thus it is not even possible for them to discriminate against any of those things you mentioned. The opportunity simply will not and does not come up.

I assume you would understand if they refused to bake a "God is Dead" cake for the local chapter of American Atheists. This is pretty much the same thing, from their perspective, except that atheism is not growing as fast as acceptance of homosexuality. They do not wish to celebrate their own downfall, and there is no sensible reason to make them do so. You're just rubbing their face in the dirt after you won, and rationalizing your incivility by resorting to an asinine Jim Crow metaphor. Because, you know, if you let them refuse to make even one wedding cake, they'll be hanging gays from every lamp-post.

IMO, right-wing Christians are using religion as a cover-up for their fundamental hatred of LGBT people. It sounds much nicer to interpret certain passages in the Bible as supposedly being against consensual romantic love between two people of same gender, than to simply say, "I hate ***s."

And to your other comment - we have won? Equal marriage is legal in all fifty states now? Protection for LGBT people from employment and housing discrimination is law in all fifty states now? LGBT teenagers have stopped killing themselves for being relentlessly bullied in school?

And I take it Martin Luther King Jr. was just being vindictive and spiteful by rubbing the faces of status quo supporters in the dirt in his fight for justice and freedom for everyone?

I do agree though, that any services DIRECTLY pertaining to, or related to, a wedding, a Christian business has the right to decide whether they want to provide such service, since I think that would be wrong just as it would be wrong to force churches to marry same sex couples if they do not want to do so. And I do have to wonder why a same sex couple - if they know beforehand - would knowingly go to an anti-LGBT Christian business when they may have an alternative business they could to, and spend their money.

[Kidlicious]

Is going after the "ivy tower intellectuals" really a rabbit hole you want to go down?

Furthermore, I think scholars are more than a simple undergraduate degree - I think a graduate level degree is needed for that moniker.

Anyways, what about the science scholars?

As much as 90% of physicians' medical knowledge has been found to be substantially or completely wrong

[C0ckney]

As much as 90% of physicians' medical knowledge has been found to be substantially or completely wrong

as many as 77% of all statistics are made up on the spot.

[giblets]

I'm sure Kidicious won't see a doctor if he starts coughing up blood.

[Kidlicious]

What scholars believe changes with every generation. The truth does not change.

[Kidlicious]

I'm sure Kidicious won't see a doctor if he starts coughing up blood.

Oh I'll listen to the scholars, but what am I to do when what they tell me sounds like bull****?

[giblets]

In social sciences the truth is changing every generation...

[giblets]

Oh I'll listen to the scholars, but what am I to do when what they tell me sounds like bull****?

If they rely on the scientific method (true for modern medicine) you should probably listen.

[Kidlicious]

In social sciences the truth is changing every generation...

Dafaq?! No.

[Kidlicious]

If they rely on the scientific method (true for modern medicine) you should probably listen.

And what if they want to make a buck?

[giblets]

And what if they want to make a buck?

Insurance companies love paying for useless unnecessary treatments. /sarcasm

[Kidlicious]

Medicine is also different because success can be measured. How do you measure the success of religious scholars?

[rah]

Is there a problem with scholars of history or literature or science making determinations based upon their studies and expertise and ordinary shmoe's not being on their level?

I'd concede that when we're talking about science. Maybe History, But never for literature or the Bible.
I've known too many authors that laughed at what the "EXPERTS" were saying what they thought the Author meant.
I think the bible is in the same category.